From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jason Spiro Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: evangelizing Emacs with a graphical tutorial Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 06:32:17 -0500 Message-ID: <87ireolpha.fsf@localhost.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> References: <87ejpc3ilr.fsf@localhost.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <86k5z46afo.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1170156762 12633 80.91.229.12 (30 Jan 2007 11:32:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:32:42 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 30 12:32:35 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HBrE3-0002fA-DY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:32:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBrE2-00035r-Vy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 06:32:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HBrDt-00035m-FB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 06:32:25 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HBrDr-00035a-2r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 06:32:24 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HBrDq-00035X-Sr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 06:32:22 -0500 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1HBrDq-0008LM-0R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 06:32:22 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HBrDe-0003fv-R1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:32:10 +0100 Original-Received: from cpe0004e2d9f884-cm0013718690da.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com ([74.102.92.157]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:32:10 +0100 Original-Received: from jasonspiro4+news by cpe0004e2d9f884-cm0013718690da.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:32:10 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 39 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: cpe0004e2d9f884-cm0013718690da.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:vWGORyryqFd6K9GrrNi7iZMV9xA= X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:65631 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > Jason Spiro writes: >> "Drew Adams" wrote: ... >> http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/emacs-slides-1.pdf seems to be a good >> one. It quickly covers the basics such as how to move the cursor. >> Then it gets to the useful stuff, such as the kill ring, isearch, etc. ... > Is that a trick question? How about an interactive hands-on tutorial > running in Emacs itself? Seems more useful for me, and we have that > already. And it is not in a propretary format, and it does not > require a different program for display. The tutorial I mention covers far more than the built-in tutorial, including major modes, regexp replace, and more. It is attractively presented in concise point form with useful diagrams. Having seen it, what do you think of it? > And for non-interactive use, it would appear that the Emacs reference > card covers a _lot_ more. Maybe we should link to that in some > manner, like offering to call > (shell-command > (format (mailcap-mime-info "application/postscript") > (expand-file-name "refcard.ps" data-directory))) I agree that would also be useful to link to. However, it is not a wide-ranging tutorial; it is a reference, useful mainly for experienced Emacs users. IMO, Emacs needs to ship with more graphical and tutorial-style material. >> If I submit a patch to implement this link, will it be accepted? > > Apart from the points above: what guarantee would we have that the > link does not go away in the next 5 years? None. Perhaps we can get the tutorial released into the public domain so we can ship it with Emacs? Also, is there a way it can be converted for viewing inside Emacs (perhaps in w3m-el if installed, or in Emacs itself otherwise?)