From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Johannes Weiner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:55:35 +0200 Message-ID: <87iquzxgtk.fsf@saeurebad.de> References: <36366a980807101702r5677d096g8e62ef5b3e278868@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807111217m66d6cf4el777c197c107ce034@mail.gmail.com> <87skug6tq5.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4eb0089f0807111345h13eccdds9b2cf43370b94074@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807121340x5e26f6dbve03ef50b238f3a3a@mail.gmail.com> <87k5fph5rh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080713214648.GB1076@muc.de> <20080714195651.GF3445@muc.de> <487C5FA3.4070603@emf.net> <87zloggji9.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <878wvxxkn6.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87ej5oz4pb.fsf@saeurebad.de> <87vdyzxype.fsf@saeurebad.de> <871w1njq32.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216663005 30661 80.91.229.12 (21 Jul 2008 17:56:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:56:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, lord@emf.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, drobinow@gmail.com To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 21 19:57:33 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KKzdQ-0004W7-Ip for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:57:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39504 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KKzcW-0008R6-9Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:56:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KKzcR-0008Qn-QB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:56:19 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KKzcQ-0008QV-CN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:56:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46715 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KKzcQ-0008QS-9b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:56:18 -0400 Original-Received: from saeurebad.de ([85.214.36.134]:41951) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KKzcD-0005Vq-T8; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:56:06 -0400 Original-Received: by saeurebad.de (Postfix, from userid 107) id A075A4A0002; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:56:02 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (217-68-166-249.dynamic.primacom.net [217.68.166.249]) by saeurebad.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6332F0006; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:56:01 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <871w1njq32.fsf@catnip.gol.com> (Miles Bader's message of "Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:59:13 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.1.3 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101104 Archived-At: Hi, Miles Bader writes: > Johannes Weiner writes: >> Which means using the auto tools, be realistic. Who writes configure >> scripts manually? > > I certainly have. > > It's not a difficult interface to implement. > > Doing so _manually_ (as a shell script or something) is not particularly > hard if you have simple needs. If you're using some other build tool, > it should often be fairly straight-forward to use that tool with a thin > layer on top to implement the GNU configure interface. It would be cool to have shell libraries you could use for whipping your own configure. I.e. no m4 macros but powerful shell functions you can just call. That way you would install the `GNU build libs' (or whatever you would like to call them) and upstream distributors ship a 20-liner of a configure script that utilizes these libraries instead of having heaps of source trees that ship a 12k lines configure script. > AFAICS, it's more a failure of imagination than a technical issue. Richard was right with me mixing up the coding standard with the autotools. I am sorry. The problem seems to be that people, including me, associate common GNU configuration/building mechanism with the autotools. So if they get pissed while using them (which is not unlikely, as we already know now), they probably tend to use something completely different, just because there is something else that promises working out of the box. So the more realistic case is that people chose scons or something instead of dropping autotools and writing their own configure script. I build a lot of software myself and this is based on half-assed observation, I might be wrong. Hannes