From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: pjb@informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: what is the important uses of emacs lisp? Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:23:30 +0200 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <87iqttc06l.fsf@hubble.informatimago.com> References: <86tzdeynug.fsf@timbral.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1219369262 12344 80.91.229.12 (22 Aug 2008 01:41:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:41:02 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 22 03:41:55 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KWLex-0000QR-B6 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:41:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56508 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KWLdy-00045V-Oy for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Aug 2008 21:40:50 -0400 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeed.straub-nv.de!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!cleanfeed3-b.proxad.net!nnrp4-1.free.fr!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en X-Disabled: X-No-Archive: no User-Agent: Gnus/5.1008 (Gnus v5.10.8) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:TAEgjLo/S5eoelGXrxUP8MDAaws= Original-Lines: 79 Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Aug 2008 03:09:19 MEST Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 88.182.134.169 Original-X-Trace: 1219367359 news-4.free.fr 16182 88.182.134.169:32780 Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:161527 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:56870 Archived-At: Evans Winner writes: > Michael Ekstrand writes: > > Now, to attempt to answer your question: everything. > Emacs Lisp is used for extending, customizing, and > implementing Emacs. Most of Emacs itself is written in > Emacs Lisp. Emacs users use Emacs Lisp to customize > their Emacs (setting variables and writing functions in > their .emacs file, typically) and add new features to > it. Software developers use Emacs Lisp to write new > packages adding additional features and capabilities to > Emacs. > > But seriously folks, why, why, oh why is Emacs so rare in > this regard? I mean, maybe I'm just another Emacs religious > nut, but I just can't fathom why anyone wants their software > to be exclusively mouse-driven, rigid, inflexible, > un-extensible, un-customizable, un-self-documenting, non > language-based, etc. I really am surprised sometimes that > the whole lisp machine concept never took off. I mean, I'm > not really surprised -- after all, originally most people > who could benefit from PCs knew nothing about them and were > understandably intimidated and so they welcomed the whole > point-and-grunt model of machine-human interaction. But > now? Sheesh. Isn't it time for people to start using > computers like intelligent civilized humans? > > And just when I thought it couldn't get any worse than the > old Macintosh model of if-it-ain't-got-a-button- > it-ain't-gonna-happen user interface, now everybody wants to > write their user interface in some kind of Frankenstein's > monster of web browser typesetting widgets and ad-hoc > scripting languages and the result is that while at least > the data entry people could really get good with keyboarding > around the green screen crud screens once upon a time, now > even the best of them is reduced to the data throughput > level of a three year old[1]. > > At least that's how it seems to me. > > I'm on a bit of a rampage of late because I just took a new > sysadmin job and found that the IT department policies are > so absurdly strict that I can't even install my choice of > text editors on the PC there. There is a short (very short) > list of allowed software (almost all of it proprietary, of > course) and I'm just stuck with it. There I am running a > million-dollar system running (nee) OS/400 and on the front > end I'm stuck with Windows and notepad.exe. Point... > grunt... point... grunt. If you can have a program such as putty.exe authorized, that'd be an escape route. Even without putty.exe, IIRC, telnet.exe comes standard with MS-Windows. Otherwise, there are ssh-enabled java terminal emulators running in web browsers... http://www.javassh.org/ > I'm so extremely sorry to have wasted everyone's time with > all this ranting... though evidently not sorry enough to > rethink sending it. That's ok, to share the feeling. ;-) > Anyway, long live Emacs lisp. > > Footnotes: > [1] Not that I have anything against the mouse or GUIs; on > the contrary I think they can be very useful. I just don't > think they are a good substitute for those things... for > which they are not a good substitute... like, er, most user > input, for instance. -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ "I have challenged the entire quality assurance team to a Bat-Leth contest. They will not concern us again."