ISO dates, correction on Org documentation

ISO dates, correction on Org documentation

[Vincent Belaïche]

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Hello Dominik,

The Org mode documentation says that Org mode uses ISO time
stamps. Although Org mode date/time format is inspired by ISO, it is not
fully compliant, see for instance http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601
on ISO date and time format.

I corrected the documentation and attached a patch.

FYI, in ISO date/time format looks like this:

2009-09-18T07:16

while Org mode is like that

<2009-09-18 ven. 07:16>

(this timestamp was generated by `C-c .' on my machine, `ven.' means
`Fri' in French).

Intervals and are supported by ISO, with a `/' separator, while org uses
a `-' separator which is ambiguous in ISO (+ or - are used for the time
zone). 

ISO also supports intervals specified with a duration with the `P'
seperator, such intervals may be defined relative to begin date or
end date

ISO also supports repetitions with the `R' separator, while Org uses a
`+' separator.

If ever you want to implement ISO 8601 format into Org, I suggests that
ISO8601 timesamps/time interval are encapsulated into `<I' and `>' where
the leading `I' would help Org to disambiguate from native Org mode
format (although in case where `T', `P' or `R' is used, it is possible
to guess it's an ISO format.

So the example I gave would be:

<I2009-09-18T07:16>

There could also be some relaxed ISO using an `i' prefix like this:

<i2009-09-18T07:16(ven.)>

where the day short name (eg. `ven.') is shown between backets, as it is
cool to have this information. Relaxed ISO would just strip _anything_
between brackets before interpreting the timestamp, so it would be quite
robust to locale stuff (like `ven.'  instead of `Fri'). 

Very best regards,

   Vincent.

PS: I may contribute on this, if you wish.



[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
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*** org.texi.old	Fri Sep 11 19:30:09 2009
--- org.texi	Fri Sep 18 04:59:29 2009
***************
*** 4831,4844 ****
  @cindex deadlines
  @cindex scheduling
  
! A timestamp is a specification of a date (possibly with a time or a range
! of times) in a special format, either @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue>} or
  @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue 09:39>} or @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue
! 12:00-12:30>}@footnote{This is the standard ISO date/time format.  To
! use an alternative format, see @ref{Custom time format}.}.  A timestamp
! can appear anywhere in the headline or body of an Org tree entry.  Its
! presence causes entries to be shown on specific dates in the agenda
! (@pxref{Weekly/daily agenda}).  We distinguish:
  
  @table @var
  @item Plain timestamp; Event; Appointment
--- 4831,4844 ----
  @cindex deadlines
  @cindex scheduling
  
! A timestamp is a specification of a date (possibly with a time or a range of
! times) in a special format, either @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue>} or
  @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue 09:39>} or @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue
! 12:00-12:30>}@footnote{This format is inspired by the standard ISO 8601
! date/time format.  To use an alternative format, see @ref{Custom time
! format}.}.  A timestamp can appear anywhere in the headline or body of an Org
! tree entry.  Its presence causes entries to be shown on specific dates in the
! agenda (@pxref{Weekly/daily agenda}).  We distinguish:
  
  @table @var
  @item Plain timestamp; Event; Appointment
***************
*** 4985,4992 ****
  @cindex time, reading in minibuffer
  
  @vindex org-read-date-prefer-future
! When Org mode prompts for a date/time, the default is shown as an ISO
! date, and the prompt therefore seems to ask for an ISO date.  But it
  will in fact accept any string containing some date and/or time
  information, and it is really smart about interpreting your input.  You
  can, for example, use @kbd{C-y} to paste a (possibly multi-line) string
--- 4985,4993 ----
  @cindex time, reading in minibuffer
  
  @vindex org-read-date-prefer-future
! When Org mode prompts for a date/time, the default value is shown in default
! date/time format which looks like an ISO date, and the prompt therefore seems
! to ask for a date/time in this format.  But it
  will in fact accept any string containing some date and/or time
  information, and it is really smart about interpreting your input.  You
  can, for example, use @kbd{C-y} to paste a (possibly multi-line) string

Re: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation

[Miles Bader]

Vincent Belaïche <vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr> writes:
> The Org mode documentation says that Org mode uses ISO time
> stamps. Although Org mode date/time format is inspired by ISO, it is not
> fully compliant, see for instance http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601
> on ISO date and time format.
>
> I corrected the documentation and attached a patch.
>
> FYI, in ISO date/time format looks like this:
>
> 2009-09-18T07:16

Drop the "T"; it's stupid, everybody hates it.

ISO can be so moronic sometimes...

-Miles

-- 
97% of everything is grunge

RE: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation

[Vincent Belaïche]

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> Drop the "T"; it's stupid, everybody hates it.
> 
> ISO can be so moronic sometimes...
> 
> -Miles
>
At least one person likes it. So _everybody_ does not hate it. 

    Vincent.
 

_________________________________________________________________
A la recherche de bons plans pour une rentrée pas chère ? Bing ! Trouvez !
http://www.bing.com/search?q=bons+plans+rentr%C3%A9e&form=MVDE6

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RE: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation

[Vincent Belaïche]

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Hello,
I answer to myself just to clarify that I am not asking that Org should be ISO compliant. I am just saying that the documentation should not state that Org format is ISO format, while it is not. A good documentation should be accurate.

   Vincent.

From: vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr
To: miles@gnu.org
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:11:48 +0200
CC: carsten.dominik@gmail.com; emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: RE: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation









> Drop the "T"; it's stupid, everybody hates it.
> 
> ISO can be so moronic sometimes...
> 
> -Miles
>
At least one person likes it. So _everybody_ does not hate it. 

    Vincent.
 

Gratuit : Hotmail plus rapide avec Internet Explorer 8 !  Cliquez ici !
_________________________________________________________________
A la recherche de bons plans pour une rentrée pas chère ? Bing ! Trouvez !
http://www.bing.com/search?q=bons+plans+rentr%C3%A9e&form=MVDE6

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1455 bytes --]

RE: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Vincent Belaïche writes:

 > I answer to myself just to clarify that I am not asking that Org
 > should be ISO compliant. I am just saying that the documentation
 > should not state that Org format is ISO format, while it is not. A
 > good documentation should be accurate.

+1

Re: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi Vincent,

thanks for the patch, I will apply it.

- Carsten

On Sep 18, 2009, at 6:44 AM, Vincent Belaïche wrote:

> Hello Dominik,
>
> The Org mode documentation says that Org mode uses ISO time
> stamps. Although Org mode date/time format is inspired by ISO, it is  
> not
> fully compliant, see for instance http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/ 
> ISO_8601
> on ISO date and time format.
>
> I corrected the documentation and attached a patch.
>
> FYI, in ISO date/time format looks like this:
>
> 2009-09-18T07:16
>
> while Org mode is like that
>
> <2009-09-18 ven. 07:16>
>
> (this timestamp was generated by `C-c .' on my machine, `ven.' means
> `Fri' in French).
>
> Intervals and are supported by ISO, with a `/' separator, while org  
> uses
> a `-' separator which is ambiguous in ISO (+ or - are used for the  
> time
> zone).
>
> ISO also supports intervals specified with a duration with the `P'
> seperator, such intervals may be defined relative to begin date or
> end date
>
> ISO also supports repetitions with the `R' separator, while Org uses a
> `+' separator.
>
> If ever you want to implement ISO 8601 format into Org, I suggests  
> that
> ISO8601 timesamps/time interval are encapsulated into `<I' and `>'  
> where
> the leading `I' would help Org to disambiguate from native Org mode
> format (although in case where `T', `P' or `R' is used, it is possible
> to guess it's an ISO format.
>
> So the example I gave would be:
>
> <I2009-09-18T07:16>
>
> There could also be some relaxed ISO using an `i' prefix like this:
>
> <i2009-09-18T07:16(ven.)>
>
> where the day short name (eg. `ven.') is shown between backets, as  
> it is
> cool to have this information. Relaxed ISO would just strip _anything_
> between brackets before interpreting the timestamp, so it would be  
> quite
> robust to locale stuff (like `ven.'  instead of `Fri').
>
> Very best regards,
>
>   Vincent.
>
> PS: I may contribute on this, if you wish.
>
>
> *** org.texi.old	Fri Sep 11 19:30:09 2009
> --- org.texi	Fri Sep 18 04:59:29 2009
> ***************
> *** 4831,4844 ****
>  @cindex deadlines
>  @cindex scheduling
>
> ! A timestamp is a specification of a date (possibly with a time or  
> a range
> ! of times) in a special format, either @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue>} or
>  @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue 09:39>} or @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue
> ! 12:00-12:30>}@footnote{This is the standard ISO date/time format.   
> To
> ! use an alternative format, see @ref{Custom time format}.}.  A  
> timestamp
> ! can appear anywhere in the headline or body of an Org tree entry.   
> Its
> ! presence causes entries to be shown on specific dates in the agenda
> ! (@pxref{Weekly/daily agenda}).  We distinguish:
>
>  @table @var
>  @item Plain timestamp; Event; Appointment
> --- 4831,4844 ----
>  @cindex deadlines
>  @cindex scheduling
>
> ! A timestamp is a specification of a date (possibly with a time or  
> a range of
> ! times) in a special format, either @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue>} or
>  @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue 09:39>} or @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue
> ! 12:00-12:30>}@footnote{This format is inspired by the standard ISO  
> 8601
> ! date/time format.  To use an alternative format, see @ref{Custom  
> time
> ! format}.}.  A timestamp can appear anywhere in the headline or  
> body of an Org
> ! tree entry.  Its presence causes entries to be shown on specific  
> dates in the
> ! agenda (@pxref{Weekly/daily agenda}).  We distinguish:
>
>  @table @var
>  @item Plain timestamp; Event; Appointment
> ***************
> *** 4985,4992 ****
>  @cindex time, reading in minibuffer
>
>  @vindex org-read-date-prefer-future
> ! When Org mode prompts for a date/time, the default is shown as an  
> ISO
> ! date, and the prompt therefore seems to ask for an ISO date.  But it
>  will in fact accept any string containing some date and/or time
>  information, and it is really smart about interpreting your input.   
> You
>  can, for example, use @kbd{C-y} to paste a (possibly multi-line)  
> string
> --- 4985,4993 ----
>  @cindex time, reading in minibuffer
>
>  @vindex org-read-date-prefer-future
> ! When Org mode prompts for a date/time, the default value is shown  
> in default
> ! date/time format which looks like an ISO date, and the prompt  
> therefore seems
> ! to ask for a date/time in this format.  But it
>  will in fact accept any string containing some date and/or time
>  information, and it is really smart about interpreting your input.   
> You
>  can, for example, use @kbd{C-y} to paste a (possibly multi-line)  
> string

Re: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation

[Carsten Dominik]

I have now added the patch to my development version, it
will make it into Emacs when I next update there, in about 2 weeks.

- Carsten

On Sep 18, 2009, at 6:44 AM, Vincent Belaïche wrote:

> Hello Dominik,
>
> The Org mode documentation says that Org mode uses ISO time
> stamps. Although Org mode date/time format is inspired by ISO, it is  
> not
> fully compliant, see for instance http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/ 
> ISO_8601
> on ISO date and time format.
>
> I corrected the documentation and attached a patch.
>
> FYI, in ISO date/time format looks like this:
>
> 2009-09-18T07:16
>
> while Org mode is like that
>
> <2009-09-18 ven. 07:16>
>
> (this timestamp was generated by `C-c .' on my machine, `ven.' means
> `Fri' in French).
>
> Intervals and are supported by ISO, with a `/' separator, while org  
> uses
> a `-' separator which is ambiguous in ISO (+ or - are used for the  
> time
> zone).
>
> ISO also supports intervals specified with a duration with the `P'
> seperator, such intervals may be defined relative to begin date or
> end date
>
> ISO also supports repetitions with the `R' separator, while Org uses a
> `+' separator.
>
> If ever you want to implement ISO 8601 format into Org, I suggests  
> that
> ISO8601 timesamps/time interval are encapsulated into `<I' and `>'  
> where
> the leading `I' would help Org to disambiguate from native Org mode
> format (although in case where `T', `P' or `R' is used, it is possible
> to guess it's an ISO format.
>
> So the example I gave would be:
>
> <I2009-09-18T07:16>
>
> There could also be some relaxed ISO using an `i' prefix like this:
>
> <i2009-09-18T07:16(ven.)>
>
> where the day short name (eg. `ven.') is shown between backets, as  
> it is
> cool to have this information. Relaxed ISO would just strip _anything_
> between brackets before interpreting the timestamp, so it would be  
> quite
> robust to locale stuff (like `ven.'  instead of `Fri').
>
> Very best regards,
>
>   Vincent.
>
> PS: I may contribute on this, if you wish.
>
>
> *** org.texi.old	Fri Sep 11 19:30:09 2009
> --- org.texi	Fri Sep 18 04:59:29 2009
> ***************
> *** 4831,4844 ****
>  @cindex deadlines
>  @cindex scheduling
>
> ! A timestamp is a specification of a date (possibly with a time or  
> a range
> ! of times) in a special format, either @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue>} or
>  @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue 09:39>} or @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue
> ! 12:00-12:30>}@footnote{This is the standard ISO date/time format.   
> To
> ! use an alternative format, see @ref{Custom time format}.}.  A  
> timestamp
> ! can appear anywhere in the headline or body of an Org tree entry.   
> Its
> ! presence causes entries to be shown on specific dates in the agenda
> ! (@pxref{Weekly/daily agenda}).  We distinguish:
>
>  @table @var
>  @item Plain timestamp; Event; Appointment
> --- 4831,4844 ----
>  @cindex deadlines
>  @cindex scheduling
>
> ! A timestamp is a specification of a date (possibly with a time or  
> a range of
> ! times) in a special format, either @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue>} or
>  @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue 09:39>} or @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue
> ! 12:00-12:30>}@footnote{This format is inspired by the standard ISO  
> 8601
> ! date/time format.  To use an alternative format, see @ref{Custom  
> time
> ! format}.}.  A timestamp can appear anywhere in the headline or  
> body of an Org
> ! tree entry.  Its presence causes entries to be shown on specific  
> dates in the
> ! agenda (@pxref{Weekly/daily agenda}).  We distinguish:
>
>  @table @var
>  @item Plain timestamp; Event; Appointment
> ***************
> *** 4985,4992 ****
>  @cindex time, reading in minibuffer
>
>  @vindex org-read-date-prefer-future
> ! When Org mode prompts for a date/time, the default is shown as an  
> ISO
> ! date, and the prompt therefore seems to ask for an ISO date.  But it
>  will in fact accept any string containing some date and/or time
>  information, and it is really smart about interpreting your input.   
> You
>  can, for example, use @kbd{C-y} to paste a (possibly multi-line)  
> string
> --- 4985,4993 ----
>  @cindex time, reading in minibuffer
>
>  @vindex org-read-date-prefer-future
> ! When Org mode prompts for a date/time, the default value is shown  
> in default
> ! date/time format which looks like an ISO date, and the prompt  
> therefore seems
> ! to ask for a date/time in this format.  But it
>  will in fact accept any string containing some date and/or time
>  information, and it is really smart about interpreting your input.   
> You
>  can, for example, use @kbd{C-y} to paste a (possibly multi-line)  
> string