* ISO dates, correction on Org documentation
@ 2009-09-18 5:44 Vincent Belaïche
2009-09-19 5:59 ` Miles Bader
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Vincent Belaïche @ 2009-09-18 5:44 UTC (permalink / raw
To: carsten.dominik; +Cc: emacs-devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1713 bytes --]
Hello Dominik,
The Org mode documentation says that Org mode uses ISO time
stamps. Although Org mode date/time format is inspired by ISO, it is not
fully compliant, see for instance http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601
on ISO date and time format.
I corrected the documentation and attached a patch.
FYI, in ISO date/time format looks like this:
2009-09-18T07:16
while Org mode is like that
<2009-09-18 ven. 07:16>
(this timestamp was generated by `C-c .' on my machine, `ven.' means
`Fri' in French).
Intervals and are supported by ISO, with a `/' separator, while org uses
a `-' separator which is ambiguous in ISO (+ or - are used for the time
zone).
ISO also supports intervals specified with a duration with the `P'
seperator, such intervals may be defined relative to begin date or
end date
ISO also supports repetitions with the `R' separator, while Org uses a
`+' separator.
If ever you want to implement ISO 8601 format into Org, I suggests that
ISO8601 timesamps/time interval are encapsulated into `<I' and `>' where
the leading `I' would help Org to disambiguate from native Org mode
format (although in case where `T', `P' or `R' is used, it is possible
to guess it's an ISO format.
So the example I gave would be:
<I2009-09-18T07:16>
There could also be some relaxed ISO using an `i' prefix like this:
<i2009-09-18T07:16(ven.)>
where the day short name (eg. `ven.') is shown between backets, as it is
cool to have this information. Relaxed ISO would just strip _anything_
between brackets before interpreting the timestamp, so it would be quite
robust to locale stuff (like `ven.' instead of `Fri').
Very best regards,
Vincent.
PS: I may contribute on this, if you wish.
[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #2: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation --]
[-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 2437 bytes --]
*** org.texi.old Fri Sep 11 19:30:09 2009
--- org.texi Fri Sep 18 04:59:29 2009
***************
*** 4831,4844 ****
@cindex deadlines
@cindex scheduling
! A timestamp is a specification of a date (possibly with a time or a range
! of times) in a special format, either @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue>} or
@samp{<2003-09-16 Tue 09:39>} or @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue
! 12:00-12:30>}@footnote{This is the standard ISO date/time format. To
! use an alternative format, see @ref{Custom time format}.}. A timestamp
! can appear anywhere in the headline or body of an Org tree entry. Its
! presence causes entries to be shown on specific dates in the agenda
! (@pxref{Weekly/daily agenda}). We distinguish:
@table @var
@item Plain timestamp; Event; Appointment
--- 4831,4844 ----
@cindex deadlines
@cindex scheduling
! A timestamp is a specification of a date (possibly with a time or a range of
! times) in a special format, either @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue>} or
@samp{<2003-09-16 Tue 09:39>} or @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue
! 12:00-12:30>}@footnote{This format is inspired by the standard ISO 8601
! date/time format. To use an alternative format, see @ref{Custom time
! format}.}. A timestamp can appear anywhere in the headline or body of an Org
! tree entry. Its presence causes entries to be shown on specific dates in the
! agenda (@pxref{Weekly/daily agenda}). We distinguish:
@table @var
@item Plain timestamp; Event; Appointment
***************
*** 4985,4992 ****
@cindex time, reading in minibuffer
@vindex org-read-date-prefer-future
! When Org mode prompts for a date/time, the default is shown as an ISO
! date, and the prompt therefore seems to ask for an ISO date. But it
will in fact accept any string containing some date and/or time
information, and it is really smart about interpreting your input. You
can, for example, use @kbd{C-y} to paste a (possibly multi-line) string
--- 4985,4993 ----
@cindex time, reading in minibuffer
@vindex org-read-date-prefer-future
! When Org mode prompts for a date/time, the default value is shown in default
! date/time format which looks like an ISO date, and the prompt therefore seems
! to ask for a date/time in this format. But it
will in fact accept any string containing some date and/or time
information, and it is really smart about interpreting your input. You
can, for example, use @kbd{C-y} to paste a (possibly multi-line) string
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation
2009-09-18 5:44 ISO dates, correction on Org documentation Vincent Belaïche
@ 2009-09-19 5:59 ` Miles Bader
2009-09-19 19:11 ` Vincent Belaïche
2009-09-20 19:08 ` Carsten Dominik
2009-09-21 17:07 ` Carsten Dominik
2 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Miles Bader @ 2009-09-19 5:59 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Vincent Belaïche; +Cc: emacs-devel, carsten.dominik
Vincent Belaïche <vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr> writes:
> The Org mode documentation says that Org mode uses ISO time
> stamps. Although Org mode date/time format is inspired by ISO, it is not
> fully compliant, see for instance http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601
> on ISO date and time format.
>
> I corrected the documentation and attached a patch.
>
> FYI, in ISO date/time format looks like this:
>
> 2009-09-18T07:16
Drop the "T"; it's stupid, everybody hates it.
ISO can be so moronic sometimes...
-Miles
--
97% of everything is grunge
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* RE: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation
2009-09-19 5:59 ` Miles Bader
@ 2009-09-19 19:11 ` Vincent Belaïche
2009-09-19 19:15 ` Vincent Belaïche
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Vincent Belaïche @ 2009-09-19 19:11 UTC (permalink / raw
To: miles; +Cc: carsten.dominik, emacs-devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 405 bytes --]
> Drop the "T"; it's stupid, everybody hates it.
>
> ISO can be so moronic sometimes...
>
> -Miles
>
At least one person likes it. So _everybody_ does not hate it.
Vincent.
_________________________________________________________________
A la recherche de bons plans pour une rentrée pas chère ? Bing ! Trouvez !
http://www.bing.com/search?q=bons+plans+rentr%C3%A9e&form=MVDE6
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 622 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* RE: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation
2009-09-19 19:11 ` Vincent Belaïche
@ 2009-09-19 19:15 ` Vincent Belaïche
2009-09-20 11:56 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Vincent Belaïche @ 2009-09-19 19:15 UTC (permalink / raw
To: miles; +Cc: emacs-devel, carsten.dominik
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 953 bytes --]
Hello,
I answer to myself just to clarify that I am not asking that Org should be ISO compliant. I am just saying that the documentation should not state that Org format is ISO format, while it is not. A good documentation should be accurate.
Vincent.
From: vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr
To: miles@gnu.org
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:11:48 +0200
CC: carsten.dominik@gmail.com; emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: RE: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation
> Drop the "T"; it's stupid, everybody hates it.
>
> ISO can be so moronic sometimes...
>
> -Miles
>
At least one person likes it. So _everybody_ does not hate it.
Vincent.
Gratuit : Hotmail plus rapide avec Internet Explorer 8 ! Cliquez ici !
_________________________________________________________________
A la recherche de bons plans pour une rentrée pas chère ? Bing ! Trouvez !
http://www.bing.com/search?q=bons+plans+rentr%C3%A9e&form=MVDE6
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1455 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* RE: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation
2009-09-19 19:15 ` Vincent Belaïche
@ 2009-09-20 11:56 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Stephen J. Turnbull @ 2009-09-20 11:56 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Vincent Belaïche; +Cc: emacs-devel, carsten.dominik, miles
Vincent Belaïche writes:
> I answer to myself just to clarify that I am not asking that Org
> should be ISO compliant. I am just saying that the documentation
> should not state that Org format is ISO format, while it is not. A
> good documentation should be accurate.
+1
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation
2009-09-18 5:44 ISO dates, correction on Org documentation Vincent Belaïche
2009-09-19 5:59 ` Miles Bader
@ 2009-09-20 19:08 ` Carsten Dominik
2009-09-21 17:07 ` Carsten Dominik
2 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-09-20 19:08 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Vincent Belaïche; +Cc: emacs-devel
Hi Vincent,
thanks for the patch, I will apply it.
- Carsten
On Sep 18, 2009, at 6:44 AM, Vincent Belaïche wrote:
> Hello Dominik,
>
> The Org mode documentation says that Org mode uses ISO time
> stamps. Although Org mode date/time format is inspired by ISO, it is
> not
> fully compliant, see for instance http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> ISO_8601
> on ISO date and time format.
>
> I corrected the documentation and attached a patch.
>
> FYI, in ISO date/time format looks like this:
>
> 2009-09-18T07:16
>
> while Org mode is like that
>
> <2009-09-18 ven. 07:16>
>
> (this timestamp was generated by `C-c .' on my machine, `ven.' means
> `Fri' in French).
>
> Intervals and are supported by ISO, with a `/' separator, while org
> uses
> a `-' separator which is ambiguous in ISO (+ or - are used for the
> time
> zone).
>
> ISO also supports intervals specified with a duration with the `P'
> seperator, such intervals may be defined relative to begin date or
> end date
>
> ISO also supports repetitions with the `R' separator, while Org uses a
> `+' separator.
>
> If ever you want to implement ISO 8601 format into Org, I suggests
> that
> ISO8601 timesamps/time interval are encapsulated into `<I' and `>'
> where
> the leading `I' would help Org to disambiguate from native Org mode
> format (although in case where `T', `P' or `R' is used, it is possible
> to guess it's an ISO format.
>
> So the example I gave would be:
>
> <I2009-09-18T07:16>
>
> There could also be some relaxed ISO using an `i' prefix like this:
>
> <i2009-09-18T07:16(ven.)>
>
> where the day short name (eg. `ven.') is shown between backets, as
> it is
> cool to have this information. Relaxed ISO would just strip _anything_
> between brackets before interpreting the timestamp, so it would be
> quite
> robust to locale stuff (like `ven.' instead of `Fri').
>
> Very best regards,
>
> Vincent.
>
> PS: I may contribute on this, if you wish.
>
>
> *** org.texi.old Fri Sep 11 19:30:09 2009
> --- org.texi Fri Sep 18 04:59:29 2009
> ***************
> *** 4831,4844 ****
> @cindex deadlines
> @cindex scheduling
>
> ! A timestamp is a specification of a date (possibly with a time or
> a range
> ! of times) in a special format, either @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue>} or
> @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue 09:39>} or @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue
> ! 12:00-12:30>}@footnote{This is the standard ISO date/time format.
> To
> ! use an alternative format, see @ref{Custom time format}.}. A
> timestamp
> ! can appear anywhere in the headline or body of an Org tree entry.
> Its
> ! presence causes entries to be shown on specific dates in the agenda
> ! (@pxref{Weekly/daily agenda}). We distinguish:
>
> @table @var
> @item Plain timestamp; Event; Appointment
> --- 4831,4844 ----
> @cindex deadlines
> @cindex scheduling
>
> ! A timestamp is a specification of a date (possibly with a time or
> a range of
> ! times) in a special format, either @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue>} or
> @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue 09:39>} or @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue
> ! 12:00-12:30>}@footnote{This format is inspired by the standard ISO
> 8601
> ! date/time format. To use an alternative format, see @ref{Custom
> time
> ! format}.}. A timestamp can appear anywhere in the headline or
> body of an Org
> ! tree entry. Its presence causes entries to be shown on specific
> dates in the
> ! agenda (@pxref{Weekly/daily agenda}). We distinguish:
>
> @table @var
> @item Plain timestamp; Event; Appointment
> ***************
> *** 4985,4992 ****
> @cindex time, reading in minibuffer
>
> @vindex org-read-date-prefer-future
> ! When Org mode prompts for a date/time, the default is shown as an
> ISO
> ! date, and the prompt therefore seems to ask for an ISO date. But it
> will in fact accept any string containing some date and/or time
> information, and it is really smart about interpreting your input.
> You
> can, for example, use @kbd{C-y} to paste a (possibly multi-line)
> string
> --- 4985,4993 ----
> @cindex time, reading in minibuffer
>
> @vindex org-read-date-prefer-future
> ! When Org mode prompts for a date/time, the default value is shown
> in default
> ! date/time format which looks like an ISO date, and the prompt
> therefore seems
> ! to ask for a date/time in this format. But it
> will in fact accept any string containing some date and/or time
> information, and it is really smart about interpreting your input.
> You
> can, for example, use @kbd{C-y} to paste a (possibly multi-line)
> string
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: ISO dates, correction on Org documentation
2009-09-18 5:44 ISO dates, correction on Org documentation Vincent Belaïche
2009-09-19 5:59 ` Miles Bader
2009-09-20 19:08 ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-09-21 17:07 ` Carsten Dominik
2 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-09-21 17:07 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Vincent Belaïche; +Cc: emacs-devel
I have now added the patch to my development version, it
will make it into Emacs when I next update there, in about 2 weeks.
- Carsten
On Sep 18, 2009, at 6:44 AM, Vincent Belaïche wrote:
> Hello Dominik,
>
> The Org mode documentation says that Org mode uses ISO time
> stamps. Although Org mode date/time format is inspired by ISO, it is
> not
> fully compliant, see for instance http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> ISO_8601
> on ISO date and time format.
>
> I corrected the documentation and attached a patch.
>
> FYI, in ISO date/time format looks like this:
>
> 2009-09-18T07:16
>
> while Org mode is like that
>
> <2009-09-18 ven. 07:16>
>
> (this timestamp was generated by `C-c .' on my machine, `ven.' means
> `Fri' in French).
>
> Intervals and are supported by ISO, with a `/' separator, while org
> uses
> a `-' separator which is ambiguous in ISO (+ or - are used for the
> time
> zone).
>
> ISO also supports intervals specified with a duration with the `P'
> seperator, such intervals may be defined relative to begin date or
> end date
>
> ISO also supports repetitions with the `R' separator, while Org uses a
> `+' separator.
>
> If ever you want to implement ISO 8601 format into Org, I suggests
> that
> ISO8601 timesamps/time interval are encapsulated into `<I' and `>'
> where
> the leading `I' would help Org to disambiguate from native Org mode
> format (although in case where `T', `P' or `R' is used, it is possible
> to guess it's an ISO format.
>
> So the example I gave would be:
>
> <I2009-09-18T07:16>
>
> There could also be some relaxed ISO using an `i' prefix like this:
>
> <i2009-09-18T07:16(ven.)>
>
> where the day short name (eg. `ven.') is shown between backets, as
> it is
> cool to have this information. Relaxed ISO would just strip _anything_
> between brackets before interpreting the timestamp, so it would be
> quite
> robust to locale stuff (like `ven.' instead of `Fri').
>
> Very best regards,
>
> Vincent.
>
> PS: I may contribute on this, if you wish.
>
>
> *** org.texi.old Fri Sep 11 19:30:09 2009
> --- org.texi Fri Sep 18 04:59:29 2009
> ***************
> *** 4831,4844 ****
> @cindex deadlines
> @cindex scheduling
>
> ! A timestamp is a specification of a date (possibly with a time or
> a range
> ! of times) in a special format, either @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue>} or
> @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue 09:39>} or @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue
> ! 12:00-12:30>}@footnote{This is the standard ISO date/time format.
> To
> ! use an alternative format, see @ref{Custom time format}.}. A
> timestamp
> ! can appear anywhere in the headline or body of an Org tree entry.
> Its
> ! presence causes entries to be shown on specific dates in the agenda
> ! (@pxref{Weekly/daily agenda}). We distinguish:
>
> @table @var
> @item Plain timestamp; Event; Appointment
> --- 4831,4844 ----
> @cindex deadlines
> @cindex scheduling
>
> ! A timestamp is a specification of a date (possibly with a time or
> a range of
> ! times) in a special format, either @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue>} or
> @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue 09:39>} or @samp{<2003-09-16 Tue
> ! 12:00-12:30>}@footnote{This format is inspired by the standard ISO
> 8601
> ! date/time format. To use an alternative format, see @ref{Custom
> time
> ! format}.}. A timestamp can appear anywhere in the headline or
> body of an Org
> ! tree entry. Its presence causes entries to be shown on specific
> dates in the
> ! agenda (@pxref{Weekly/daily agenda}). We distinguish:
>
> @table @var
> @item Plain timestamp; Event; Appointment
> ***************
> *** 4985,4992 ****
> @cindex time, reading in minibuffer
>
> @vindex org-read-date-prefer-future
> ! When Org mode prompts for a date/time, the default is shown as an
> ISO
> ! date, and the prompt therefore seems to ask for an ISO date. But it
> will in fact accept any string containing some date and/or time
> information, and it is really smart about interpreting your input.
> You
> can, for example, use @kbd{C-y} to paste a (possibly multi-line)
> string
> --- 4985,4993 ----
> @cindex time, reading in minibuffer
>
> @vindex org-read-date-prefer-future
> ! When Org mode prompts for a date/time, the default value is shown
> in default
> ! date/time format which looks like an ISO date, and the prompt
> therefore seems
> ! to ask for a date/time in this format. But it
> will in fact accept any string containing some date and/or time
> information, and it is really smart about interpreting your input.
> You
> can, for example, use @kbd{C-y} to paste a (possibly multi-line)
> string
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-09-21 17:07 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-09-18 5:44 ISO dates, correction on Org documentation Vincent Belaïche
2009-09-19 5:59 ` Miles Bader
2009-09-19 19:11 ` Vincent Belaïche
2009-09-19 19:15 ` Vincent Belaïche
2009-09-20 11:56 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-09-20 19:08 ` Carsten Dominik
2009-09-21 17:07 ` Carsten Dominik
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