From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tassilo Horn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gentoo GNU/Linux and non-free packages Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 09:35:25 +0100 Message-ID: <87iqbexqgi.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> References: <20091228170401.GA4553@muc.de> <20091231120648.GA2801@muc.de> <4B3CD9A9.9030705@harpegolden.net> <20100103173342.GA1653@muc.de> <87bphbf3zy.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <20100103215647.GC1653@muc.de> <87637i709n.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <87ocl9wqjp.fsf_-_@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <201bac3a1001051610t25a1a767v79398943193c3e89@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1262854554 12050 80.91.229.12 (7 Jan 2010 08:55:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 08:55:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Jonas Bernoulli , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 07 09:55:46 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NSo9b-0007aJ-Tm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 09:55:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57265 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NSo9c-0000UM-G0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 03:55:40 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NSnqF-0003nE-4L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 03:35:39 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NSnq8-0003lx-A2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 03:35:36 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=45093 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NSnq7-0003lm-HA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 03:35:31 -0500 Original-Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([141.26.64.15]:3707) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NSnq4-00008Q-Uu; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 03:35:29 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DE4578A32D3; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 09:35:27 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (deliver.uni-koblenz.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28220-04; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 09:35:25 +0100 (CET) X-CHKRCPT: Envelopesender noch tassilo@member.fsf.org Original-Received: from thinkpad.tsdh.de (wlan-222.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.93.222]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A50B7894B61; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 09:35:25 +0100 (CET) Mail-Copies-To: never Mail-Followup-To: rms@gnu.org, Jonas Bernoulli , emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:45:03 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.91 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at uni-koblenz.de X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:119560 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > Under the plans you described, it will be easier to omit the non-free > packages from Gentoo. But Gentoo will still lead users towards > non-free packages, which is a bad thing to do. Well, when searching with the package manager, it still lists non-free packages, but they are masked due to their license, and you cannot install them, and for sure, the package manager won't install them as a dependency of some other package. The package manager also tells you where the license is located on your disk, so you can read it, decide on your own, and add exceptions for individual packages. For example, I allow "GPL-2 with classpath exception" for the OpenJDK IcedTea java distribution, and the TeX and LPPL licenses for the TeXLive distribution, although at least the latter two are not GPL compatible (but still free). I also accept the non-free skype license for skype, because I'm forced to use it at work... > See gnu.org/distros for more explanation about this. ,---- | Gentoo | ====== | | Gentoo makes it easy to install a number of nonfree programs through | their primary package system. `---- Well, that hardly qualifies as an still standing argument. As soon as the new package manager version is stable, it's only a matter of what defaults the Gentoo devs choose as acceptable licenses. I guess, they will choose only FSF and OSI approved licenses. Then, you will have a free system guaranteed. Of course, still a user can add an exception for an individual package he simply is forced to use, because there are no free alternatives, like some driver for a hardware device [1]. With gNewSense, he would install that manually and circumvent the package manager. With Gentoo, he adds an exception and then the package manager does the install. That has the big advantage, that he can be absolutely sure that he can remove that piece of software without leaving anything over that might be harmful to his system, as soon as a free alternative becomes available. Bye, Tassilo __________ [1] Yes, sure, you should avoid any hardware that doesn't run with only free drivers, but that can be impossible, because i.e. your company buys your computer and you have to influence on that. In that case, a nearly free system is the best you can get, and much better than using a completely proprietary OS.