From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:26:21 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87iq8ssarm.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <20100318185435.GB1522@muc.de> <20100319092300.GA1580@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1269005252 3988 80.91.229.12 (19 Mar 2010 13:27:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:27:32 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 19 14:27:24 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NscEV-0001aJ-07 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:27:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54716 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NscEU-0007qb-Ad for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:27:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NscEP-0007qU-MG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:27:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=57907 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NscEL-0007qG-Vb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:27:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NscEK-00089W-Iv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:27:13 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:39052) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NscEK-00089D-9E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:27:12 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NscEC-0001NC-4F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:27:04 +0100 Original-Received: from p5b2c294b.dip.t-dialin.net ([91.44.41.75]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:27:03 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by p5b2c294b.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:27:03 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 43 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p5b2c294b.dip.t-dialin.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.92 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:Q+OcNhMBaTYdSiFxcjkAqYymz+U= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122278 Archived-At: Lennart Borgman writes: > On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > >> You and a few others, so as to save a single key easy press ( or >> C-w) want to heap massive inconvenience on others. > > Not a few. All non-Emacs users (and they are a majority) are used to > that typing a character when text is selected will replace a visible > region/selection. That people are used to getting annoyed does not mean that they desire getting annoyed. Emacs has enough annoyances of its own. Adding all annoyances people see elsewhere is not going to improve its value, particularly not long-term. So can we please return to the discussion how delete-selection-mode can be made to better fit with Emacs' handling of the mark? If any attempt of proposing better compatible semantics is shouted down, my vote for making it the default is no. Emacs' default settings should reflect a coherent whole that can be used without the user needing circumventive measures between one part of the keybindings and another. As long as any attempt to achieve that is sabotaged, I am not in support of "giving in" to the demands for more "standard" behavior. One important metric for me is that when handing Emacs to a person previously not exposed to computers, every question about Emacs' default behavior can be answered without "it's inconvenient, but people are used to it from other applications". > Don't you think the way to go is to make suggestions that can both > move us towards the common defaults and do what you think is best for > old-timers? Currently, any such suggestion is shouted down and not being discussed. -- David Kastrup