From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thierry Volpiatto Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: more on anything.el inclusion Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:20:25 +0200 Organization: ThierryVolpiatto Message-ID: <87iq4nqh3a.fsf@tux.homenetwork> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1278792386 10159 80.91.229.12 (10 Jul 2010 20:06:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 20:06:26 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 10 22:06:25 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXgJa-0006IJ-6m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 22:06:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59898 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OXgJZ-0000EB-HU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 16:06:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=40330 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OXgJI-0008WR-Jh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 16:06:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXfdu-00069N-7d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 15:23:20 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:58443) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXfdt-00069C-QK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 15:23:18 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXfdr-0000Cl-Uc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:23:15 +0200 Original-Received: from 198.78.88-79.rev.gaoland.net ([79.88.78.198]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:23:15 +0200 Original-Received: from thierry.volpiatto by 198.78.88-79.rev.gaoland.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:23:15 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 76 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.78.88-79.rev.gaoland.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:w5ZcoKpXwye4lCz02zDoOZuSYh0= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." 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MON KEY writes: > On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:47:40 -0500 Ted Zlatanov wrote: >> Does this mean you'd rather not include anything.el in Emacs? >> >> My view is that the anything.el system, separated from the Emacs >> completion mechanism, has significant freedom with plugins and > > This freedom isn't of itself a good thing and could just as well serve > as a potential source confusion/bugs/conflict. > > AFAIK anything is currently maintained by a cadre of users and the > `freedom' that the anything interface provides has/can created > conflicts w/re implementation details. > > Were anything.el to be included in Emacs who would be the lead point > of contact? > > IMHO of the anything cadre Thierry is prob. the capable person, though > I imagine nominating him as such could be a bone of contention other > of the existing contributors. > > This being said, it likewise isn't at all clear how/why the Anything > featureset is different from or somehow 'better than' the Icicles > features Drew Adams' has provided and maintained for many years > now. Indeed, IIUC there is already some overlap between the two API's > because there a not insignificant degree of functionality overlap. It > would seem a real shame (and prob. an insulting to Drew) to consider > inclusion of Anything without an honest discussion of inclusion of > Icicles as well. > > Maybe Icicles and Antyhing code/features could/should be merged before > inclusion in Emacs. > > FTR I use neither Anything nor Icicles and couldn't endorse either > from experience. However, I have watched the progress of their > respective development with interest. > >> functionality. So improving the completion mechanism is not the >> same as what anything.el can provide for Emacs users. > > Why should it be? > What Stephan proposes is absolutely TRT for users such as myself who > _could/should_ benefit from the features and proven design concepts > which both Anything and Icicles seem to extend to their current > adoptees. Why shouldn't we all benefit from an abstracted meta-level > API? > > It is wrongheaded to arbitrarily incorporate external packages which > duplicate existing core behaviour/features such that the duplication > of the new (however useful) is better positioned to becomes the norm > simply by virtue of the pain imposed on emacs-devels to retrofit a > core API after the fact. > > IOW lets say anything.el were to be included in Emacs and it became so > widely adopted that it was deemed worthwhile to attempt a retroactive > metaleval API (including C primitives). Were Stefan or some other > devel to endeavor implementation of such an API they might be hard > pressed to maintain backwards compatibility with the existing > anything.el procedures and prob. alienate the primary anything.el user > base to boot. > >> Ted > > -- > /s_P\ > > -- Thierry Volpiatto Gpg key: http://pgp.mit.edu/