From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
To: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Change `customize-save-variable' to work under "emacs -Q"?
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 13:12:22 +0900 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87ipr8t9w9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAC=50j_ijL-Rbw0_H1tPc0rbyR61JGk9ZMuwW-Gs0zA3S2eb4A@mail.gmail.com>
Tim Cross writes:
> I have used that technique, but have run into problems with packages
> that have already loaded where the variable needs to be set before
> they are loaded.
Granted, but that belongs to the "do what's needed to reproduce the
bug" part of my workflow. I don't see how it's relevant to the
discussion of *excessive* changes to the -Q environment.
> The core issue I see is that -Q is useful mainly because it
> establishes a standard default environment.
[...]
> Once we allow local customizations to be applied in this
> environment, this standard base default environment no longer
> exists. This may be fine, provided there is some mechanism that
> makes what has been changed explicit and easy to reproduce.
I think that Customize already provides some function for listing
variables that are not at their default values, both Customized and
"rogue" values. Its output could be added to the bug-reporter's
buffer (maybe it's already there in Emacs, but XEmacs doesn't do that
yet). Perhaps it should be glossed with a comment that only
defcustoms can be listed this way.
> Bug reporting was not meant as the central theme - it was just an
> example of one thing that could be affected when you allow local
> customizations to be applied in a -Q environment.
OK.
> What I don't want to see is one party reporting something in a -Q
> environment that is not seen in another -Q environment (assuming
> other things, such as platform, version etc being equal)
I'm not sure I understand. Isn't that just a symptom of a poor
report, ie, omitting necessary preparation for reproducing the
behavior from the recipe? AIUI Lars' code is *not* going to suffer
from the problem you describe: only *necessary* changes to the -Q
environment will be made, and it's the reporter's responsibility, as
usual, to describe them accurately. I'll let Lars speak to the
details, though.
> What I don't want is local customizations that are applied 'behind
> the scenes' or are only applied to some things and not others.
Sure.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-07-12 4:12 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 28+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-07-10 12:22 Change `customize-save-variable' to work under "emacs -Q"? Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-07-11 2:30 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-07-11 7:49 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-07-11 9:52 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-07-11 9:53 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-07-11 13:52 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-07-11 17:36 ` Chong Yidong
2011-07-11 18:08 ` Drew Adams
2011-07-11 19:32 ` Juanma Barranquero
2011-07-11 18:27 ` PJ Weisberg
2011-07-11 19:04 ` Chong Yidong
2011-07-11 19:28 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-07-12 0:03 ` Tim Cross
2011-07-12 1:07 ` chad
2011-07-12 1:51 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-07-12 2:57 ` Tim Cross
2011-07-12 4:12 ` Stephen J. Turnbull [this message]
2011-07-12 10:30 ` Tim Cross
2011-07-13 0:31 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-07-13 5:38 ` Tim Cross
2011-07-13 11:02 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-07-13 23:46 ` Tim Cross
2011-07-14 2:13 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-07-12 6:46 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-07-12 3:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-07-15 17:01 ` Dave Abrahams
2011-07-17 14:33 ` Christoph Scholtes
2011-07-17 19:13 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
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