From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: `isearch-allow-scroll' - a misnomer and a bad design Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:33:35 +0900 Message-ID: <87ipolb0pc.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20110911103940.GA3246@acm.acm> <3C4B7E318EB04AE4B7DB9FD0E4C67629@us.oracle.com> <20110911173012.GA3088@acm.acm> <20110912093651.GA3249@acm.acm> <20110913142732.GB3081@acm.acm> <7E2EE144B11D413583E1E659CDE15186@us.oracle.com> <8739g0vyuy.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <4E6FF63A.4070604@gmail.com> <2F1337889F394491BA778ACA46799812@us.oracle.com> <874o07m3ay.fsf@maru.md5i.com> <87r539c0qx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1316669641 6877 80.91.229.12 (22 Sep 2011 05:34:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 05:34:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: md5i@md5i.com, dan.colascione@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, dmoncayo@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, yandros@mit.edu, drew.adams@oracle.com To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 22 07:33:55 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R6bv0-0006Hf-FB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 07:33:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59611 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R6buz-0001oR-V8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 01:33:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:45393) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R6bux-0001oM-41 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 01:33:52 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R6buv-0006cG-Q4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 01:33:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:44250) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R6buv-0006c8-5Z; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 01:33:49 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4075F9707AE; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:33:35 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3959412029B; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:33:35 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0a1 under 21.5 (beta31) "ginger" 6c76f5b7e2e3 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 130.158.97.224 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:144173 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > Whether something is a mode is a question about how people understand > its interface. Indeed. Guess what? My fingers use isearch as you originally intended; I don't use *any* non-printing characters to invoke isearch- specific commands except C-s, C-r, BKSP, and RET (you missed those last two, I think they have always been available with isearch- specific behavior). Nevertheless, I *understand* isearch as modal. > It is normal for editing commands to stop searching and edit > instead. You made an exception for BKSP. That one bothers me a lot. Much of the time, it "should" stop searching and edit the buffer, but it doesn't. Of course, there's no way for Emacs to know which I meant, so I have to accept that modality. OTOH, it would be abnormal for RET to stop searching and self-insert; its current meaning of "accept the search (= just stay at the found text)" is just right. Those two keystrokes alone are enough to evoke a perception of modality in me.