From: Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs history, and "Is Emacs difficult to learn?"
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 20:11:21 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87iozqzjjq.fsf@VLAN-3434.student.uu.se> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 39e6407d-c4fd-4dc1-b47f-a1ba4119c7cb@googlegroups.com
Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:
> In the same vein CSists emphasise algorithms too much over data.
I agree that the focus on algorithms is uncalled for, but what do
you mean by "data"?
> From the typical academic viewpoint: Elisp is just a lisp with
> some additional features suitable for editor-writing.
Yes, and isn't that correct?
> From a data viewpoint: Elisp is more different from vanilla lisp
> than lisp is from C, given its primitive data-structures like
> buffer, window etc.
I don't know what "Vanilla Lisp" is but I did Common Lisp and
Elisp, and they were virtually identical to me until I learned
some of the fine tunings of Elisp, which all related to the
specific domain, that is Emacs.
But I don't think Lisp (in general, Elisp/CL/etc.) is that far
from C. Or, it depends how you use them. The way I use them, they
are close.
> Anyone who knows the goings-on of the typical academic setup
> will know that the first view has more traction there than the
> second.
Again, I don't understand the "data" viewpoint. Data structures
and algorithms are the same, or very close, in my mind. Lots of
algorithms don't even work - and how could they? - if not for a
specific data structure. (Is this what you mean by "data"?)
> And thence follows the reduced respectability of VB, Cobol, sql,
> spreadsheets as compared to 'serious' languages like C/C++.
SQL is respected. There is nothing wrong with VB, or VBA, as
*languages* (they are just BASIC offshots like all the others),
the problem are those disgusting IDEs, and especially the MS
Access database wizards. From a theory standpoint, they are the
opposite of MVC. From an emotional standpoint, they make me want
to puke. I don't know anything about Cobol. C is highly respect in
theory and practice, perhaps because of Unix, perhaps because it
is so cool. C++ is far from as stable/gentlemanly as C, but it
works, and is fast, with development, and with execution. It is
the language that the man on the street *still* is (by far) most
likely to associate with programming.
Note that there is no "C/C++". Those are two different languages,
with different tools, and with different libraries.
--
Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below)
computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-07-31 18:11 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 60+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-07-29 13:05 Emacs history, and "Is Emacs difficult to learn?" Emanuel Berg
2013-07-29 14:46 ` Jambunathan K
2013-07-30 10:10 ` Chris Van Dusen
[not found] ` <mailman.2115.1375179046.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-07-30 22:09 ` Emanuel Berg
[not found] ` <mailman.2028.1375109070.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-07-29 15:37 ` Rustom Mody
2013-07-29 16:01 ` Phillip Lord
2013-07-30 6:27 ` Luca Ferrari
2013-07-30 15:22 ` Aurélien DESBRIÈRES
2013-07-30 15:31 ` Aurélien DESBRIÈRES
[not found] ` <mailman.2162.1375198972.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-07-30 16:44 ` Rustom Mody
2013-07-30 18:08 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-07-30 18:01 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-07-30 11:38 ` Emanuel Berg
[not found] ` <mailman.2041.1375113728.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-07-30 11:47 ` Emanuel Berg
[not found] ` <mailman.2077.1375165681.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-07-30 11:56 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-07-29 19:38 ` Barry Margolin
2013-07-30 12:00 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-07-30 12:27 ` Rustom Mody
2013-07-30 14:59 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-07-30 15:08 ` Stefan Monnier
[not found] ` <mailman.2155.1375196921.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-07-30 15:19 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-07-30 21:19 ` Barry Margolin
2013-07-30 21:33 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-07-31 4:47 ` Rustom Mody
2013-07-31 6:23 ` Rustom Mody
2013-07-31 18:11 ` Emanuel Berg [this message]
2013-07-31 19:19 ` drain
2013-07-31 19:20 ` Rustom Mody
2013-08-01 14:39 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-08-01 15:21 ` Rustom Mody
2013-08-01 15:27 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-08-01 15:42 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-08-01 16:18 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.2318.1375371796.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-08-01 16:08 ` Rustom Mody
2013-08-01 16:43 ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-08-01 16:44 ` Stefan Monnier
[not found] ` <mailman.2323.1375375948.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-08-01 20:48 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-08-03 1:01 ` drain
[not found] ` <mailman.2414.1375491715.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-08-03 10:55 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-08-04 21:23 ` drain
[not found] ` <mailman.2487.1375651440.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-08-05 8:36 ` LaTeX (was: Re: Emacs history, and "Is Emacs difficult to learn?") Emanuel Berg
2013-08-01 16:31 ` Emacs history, and "Is Emacs difficult to learn?" Emanuel Berg
[not found] ` <mailman.2321.1375374479.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-08-01 16:33 ` Barry Margolin
2013-08-01 17:52 ` Rustom Mody
2013-08-01 16:41 ` Emanuel Berg
[not found] ` <mailman.2251.1375298397.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-08-01 14:17 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-08-01 15:19 ` Luca Ferrari
2013-08-01 18:40 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-08-01 20:28 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-07-30 15:34 ` Phillip Lord
2013-07-31 0:47 ` gottlieb
[not found] ` <mailman.2161.1375198462.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-07-30 16:53 ` Rustom Mody
2013-07-31 0:49 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-07-31 12:10 ` Phillip Lord
2013-07-31 14:42 ` Stefan Monnier
[not found] ` <mailman.2222.1375272627.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-08-01 7:40 ` R development environment Sebastien Vauban
2013-08-01 10:44 ` Phillip Lord
[not found] ` <mailman.2194.1375231670.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-07-31 0:51 ` Emacs history, and "Is Emacs difficult to learn?" Emanuel Berg
2013-07-30 21:50 ` Emanuel Berg
2013-07-30 10:10 ` Emanuel Berg
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