From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: wgreenhouse@riseup.net (W. Greenhouse) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Emacs very alive, active and improving? Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 07:59:53 +0000 Message-ID: <87ioyp7wqu.fsf@motoko.kusanagi> References: <87r4ddo4yp.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1377763235 28508 80.91.229.3 (29 Aug 2013 08:00:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 08:00:35 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 29 10:00:38 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VEx9g-0003iE-Np for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:00:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41108 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VEx9g-0005Hf-ED for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 04:00:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57006) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VEx9K-0005GX-3o for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 04:00:19 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VEx9E-0005zD-8i for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 04:00:14 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:58985) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VEx9E-0005yg-2r for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 04:00:08 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VEx9C-0003P8-HW for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:00:06 +0200 Original-Received: from 23.88.99.18 ([23.88.99.18]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:00:06 +0200 Original-Received: from wgreenhouse by 23.88.99.18 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:00:06 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 31 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 23.88.99.18 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:ZI2MBxLPMSbWIWi6p+0/TgAFcLs= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:93154 Archived-At: Emanuel Berg writes: > I've heard that Emacs is self-documenting numerous times, and, if > this refers to the docstrings of Elisp functions, I have to say > "self-documenting" is stretching the truth. The docstrings are a > handy way to provide documentation, and the Emacs access to that > documentation is provided instantly upon evaluation of the defun > (of if it is some other thing: a variable, perhaps). This is all > well and good, but the documentation has to be written > nonetheless, like any other documentation. > > Emacs can also tell you the parameters of a function, where it is > defined (and provide hyperlinks), etc., and this is indispensable > knowledge, for sure - but perhaps not "documentation" as much as a > specification for a person who already knows the workings. Right, I was referring to the describe-* family of commands, the apropos-* commands, and the find-function/find-library/find-variable/find-face-definition commands, as well as the Customize system. I realize that documentation doesn't write itself, that the parameters of a function on their own may be rather mysterious, and that machine-generated documentation generally sucks. Nonetheless, Emacs provides the user with an unusually rich set of ways of finding out about the environment's current state and the workings and customization possibilities of a program, as well as discovering things you didn't know you were looking for. I take "self-documenting" to mean "capable of introspection in a variety of context-useful ways". If we updated the Emacs one-line description for 2013, we'd probably call it the "extensible, customizable, introspective editor". Or not--that makes it sound like a neurotic existentialist writer!