From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
Cc: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagnostics
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:55:37 +0900 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87io8dw8qu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <55D2265B.5030109@yandex.ru>
Dmitry Gutov writes:
> Unicode characters are good, we should use them in text, but not in the
> basic syntax of the language or its environment.
Oh, so you want a computer language where characters are used only in
strings? Good trick, that.
Seriously, now that we do have Unicode, and good implementations of it
(although Emacs's isn't complete yet, it's certainly usable), there's
really no excuse for _a priori_ restricting the character set used in
a computer language. Yes, discipline is necessary: the *size* of the
character set (aside from identifier constituents) should not be
expanded without good reason. But which characters are used shouldn't
be decided on the basis of historically limited charsets. They should
be chosen because they are appropriate to their syntactic roles.
Backward compatibility is important. The old-timers have a point --
the ASCII workarounds we've used for decades still work, and adding
new synonyms or changing the syntax to substitute more accurate
versions is costly to experienced users and developers. I personally
agree with Paul -- the appropriate place to experiment with this kind
of thing is with string conventions that don't change the meaning of
Lisp programs per se, although they do affect parsing of output and
editing Lisp programs. It's all about eating your own dogfood. But
although I like these changes, they are hardly a no-brainer.
On the other hand, not liking input methods? That's not admissible:
Emacs is the world's biggest, most complex input method, and that is
its primary mission. If you can handle Emacs, you can learn a couple
dozen additional keystroke combinations to input new syntactically
significant characters (and surely the extended repertoire will
include only a few such for many years -- "a couple dozen" is a
generous concession to reactionary fears).
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-08-18 3:55 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 212+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <20150816160149.9416.80132@vcs.savannah.gnu.org>
[not found] ` <E1ZR0NZ-0002SU-SM@vcs.savannah.gnu.org>
2015-08-16 21:44 ` [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagnostics Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-16 22:53 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-16 23:16 ` Drew Adams
2015-08-18 3:40 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-18 5:20 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 8:56 ` Bastien
2015-08-18 17:34 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 18:05 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-08-18 18:32 ` Chad Brown
2015-08-18 19:42 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-18 20:17 ` Drew Adams
2015-08-24 20:20 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-25 11:35 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-25 22:11 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-25 22:16 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-26 18:51 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-26 22:23 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2015-08-26 22:39 ` David Kastrup
2015-08-26 22:53 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2015-08-27 2:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-27 3:11 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2015-08-27 4:43 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2015-08-27 4:49 ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-08-27 16:27 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-27 16:27 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-27 3:10 ` Alexis
2015-08-27 4:48 ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-08-27 4:52 ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-08-27 4:49 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-27 5:08 ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-08-27 7:33 ` David Kastrup
2015-08-27 8:47 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-27 8:56 ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-08-27 16:28 ` [TRUNCATED MESSAGE 2408 171455] " Richard Stallman
2015-08-27 17:44 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-27 11:27 ` Alexis
2015-08-27 16:27 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-27 17:16 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-28 1:41 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-28 2:02 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-28 7:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 21:17 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-28 8:12 ` Rasmus
2015-08-28 8:32 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-28 8:38 ` Rasmus
2015-08-28 8:47 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-08-28 9:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 9:36 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-08-28 9:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 9:53 ` Rasmus
2015-08-28 10:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 10:12 ` Rasmus
2015-08-28 12:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 15:04 ` Rasmus
2015-08-28 15:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 9:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 16:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-08-28 19:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-29 14:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-08-29 16:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-30 2:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-08-30 14:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-30 15:49 ` David Kastrup
2015-08-31 1:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-08-31 14:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-31 17:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-08-31 17:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-01 3:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-08-28 21:20 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-28 7:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-18 20:53 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-18 21:43 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-19 1:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-19 18:14 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-20 13:56 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-21 7:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-21 12:43 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-21 12:52 ` David Kastrup
2015-08-22 17:30 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-21 13:58 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2015-08-21 14:39 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-08-19 1:22 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-19 3:52 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-19 18:15 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-19 18:52 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-20 16:54 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-21 0:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-21 1:35 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 20:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-19 1:24 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-19 4:52 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-24 20:20 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-17 3:44 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 11:09 ` Bastien Guerry
2015-08-17 16:39 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 16:57 ` Bastien
2015-08-17 17:25 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 17:47 ` Bastien
2015-08-17 11:33 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-17 16:41 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 11:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-17 16:42 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 18:11 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-17 18:38 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 18:50 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-17 23:25 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-08-17 23:55 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 11:31 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-19 6:28 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-19 13:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-19 22:21 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-19 22:38 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-20 13:55 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-21 23:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-22 0:19 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-22 12:45 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-24 17:33 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-25 7:11 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-25 11:38 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-25 18:03 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-26 1:25 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-08-26 2:51 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-20 16:56 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-20 19:32 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-22 16:31 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-22 18:48 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-22 21:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-22 22:43 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-22 23:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-22 23:45 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-23 8:11 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-23 9:48 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-23 10:45 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-23 10:48 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-08-24 5:47 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-23 4:30 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-23 8:13 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-24 0:08 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-24 1:10 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-24 20:22 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-24 20:20 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-24 22:25 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-25 22:10 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-26 6:13 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 12:15 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-17 14:40 ` Drew Adams
2015-08-17 16:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-17 19:06 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 19:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-17 16:53 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 17:35 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-18 2:55 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 10:39 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-18 16:45 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 17:17 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-18 19:25 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 20:42 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-18 21:40 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 22:44 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-08-18 23:11 ` Bastien
2015-08-18 23:41 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-19 0:29 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-08-19 0:38 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-08-19 18:15 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-19 18:40 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-20 13:37 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-08-20 20:23 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-21 7:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-21 15:27 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-22 17:29 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-19 6:31 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-19 6:58 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-08-19 9:09 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-19 9:13 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-08-19 14:05 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-19 14:47 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-08-19 16:10 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-20 23:46 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-19 14:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-19 16:03 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-22 17:27 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-23 0:04 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-24 0:05 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-19 18:16 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-21 7:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-22 17:27 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-19 18:14 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-18 23:15 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-19 4:24 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-19 7:37 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-08-19 10:10 ` Nicolas Richard
2015-08-19 14:26 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-08-19 21:53 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-20 7:20 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-08-20 13:31 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-08-18 15:09 ` Yuri Khan
2015-08-18 15:24 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-08-18 15:48 ` Yuri Khan
2015-08-18 15:48 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-18 17:08 ` Yuri Khan
2015-08-18 18:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-19 4:45 ` Yuri Khan
2015-08-19 14:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-19 5:19 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-19 14:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-19 16:05 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-19 1:19 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-17 18:22 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-18 3:55 ` Stephen J. Turnbull [this message]
2015-08-18 10:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-18 12:31 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-08-18 3:44 ` Richard Stallman
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