From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: member returns list Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 01:56:23 +0200 Message-ID: <87io7fry3c.fsf@debian.uxu> References: <87bndfauey.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87wpw0e58f.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> <87si6n822t.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87oaha9a64.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87twr1pycd.fsf@debian.uxu> <87zj0s5yc8.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87r3m45r7a.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87a8ss5ffj.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1442101719 14272 80.91.229.3 (12 Sep 2015 23:48:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 23:48:39 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 13 01:48:27 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZauWw-0004wX-3V for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 01:48:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34061 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZauWv-00068b-Cu for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2015 19:48:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56510) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZauWl-00068U-02 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2015 19:48:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZauWh-0008Ii-Lk for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2015 19:48:14 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:38631) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZauWh-0008Hr-FD for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2015 19:48:11 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZauWf-0004ba-MA for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 01:48:09 +0200 Original-Received: from nl106-137-244.student.uu.se ([130.243.137.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 01:48:09 +0200 Original-Received: from embe8573 by nl106-137-244.student.uu.se with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 01:48:09 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Lines: 42 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: nl106-137-244.student.uu.se Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:89ornCRTV8H6wNEbGXaFzWMOkhc= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:107183 Archived-At: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" writes: >>> Also, I didn't show the transitivities, but: No >>> Smalltalk -> no Objective-C -> no NeXTSTEP No Lisp >>> -> no Interface Builder -> no NeXTSTEP No NeXTSTEP >>> -> no MacOSX -> no iOS -> no iPad/iPhone. >>> >> If I ever get my time machine going, first thing >> after spending a decade in the 90s' Ibiza listening >> to eurodisco and dropping E, remind me to go back >> to 1969 and terminate Alan Kay. Or better yet, >> I can just bring an iPhone and he'll probably grab >> for the revolver himself! > > You are definitely crazy. My people were once travellers and warriors. In yet another era, we had an industrial capacity in parity with the superpowers, and a super-educated workforce. Now, people don't know jack about anything and they don't even know what goes on half a meter to their sides as they are enslaved by those one million times accursed iThings. Physically and mentally those have been a disaster to millions all over the world. What Lisp has to do with them is beyond me as Lisp is the most advanced programming language which implies limitless creativity, whereas the iThings are very dangerous toys that have already enslaved millions of supposedly "adults" as well. Whenever I encounter old people I see this very clearly - the difference in posture, knowledge, skill, literacy, awareness, self-confidence - it is just huge. Of course, there were no iThings in their youths and adult lives so they hade to take part in real activity, solve real problems, communicate with real people, develop real skills, and so on - every day. The people today who never did any of that - well, it shows! -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573