From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23926: defcustom with STANDARD= gives confusing results Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 23:26:25 -0400 Message-ID: <87inwbfsf2.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> References: <83vb0fgu83.fsf@gnu.org> <87k2gvhvql.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <838txbgfgx.fsf@gnu.org> <837fcvgdho.fsf@gnu.org> <8360sehps4.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1468294048 9211 80.91.229.3 (12 Jul 2016 03:27:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 03:27:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 23926@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 12 05:27:17 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bMoLr-0006pX-Jp for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2016 05:27:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37182 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bMoLq-0005hD-OT for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2016 23:27:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41745) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bMoLi-0005fX-Pz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2016 23:27:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bMoLe-0002xm-Jk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2016 23:27:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:35089) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bMoLe-0002xi-G2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2016 23:27:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bMoLd-0001SX-Vf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2016 23:27:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 03:27:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23926 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23926-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23926.14682939975578 (code B ref 23926); Tue, 12 Jul 2016 03:27:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2016 03:26:37 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47426 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bMoLF-0001Ru-58 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2016 23:26:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io0-f180.google.com ([209.85.223.180]:33492) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bMoLB-0001Rf-Kr for 23926@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2016 23:26:35 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io0-f180.google.com with SMTP id 38so5479901iol.0 for <23926@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 11 Jul 2016 20:26:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q4HtW10QWviEw4JUIjyRC0QVDjGd5CLTm7PsrFDs0xI=; b=Zz2SfXO7EXxCaK+KSIeLni/eQKhIf9VAngwmI/mkCg8/FqmN//yVCuDE2me+DPsJpZ tWdDYRB5AzuH5rNJtd3y78YCSPGm27m5YL62wgnDKFARHNYhaXVatOi0QFbrStSKoI9s aE+8H33GruOLWZcb/29aMH20G46L20cg5JnDB540OzUg2hk7UWmcqRwaO7Lsou7lssN4 xgU+Zee0J7k4ORD5+xT7zoTQjWjBr69GzRAPqiPCKwdB8OPosOwoJHcQcwOSsqmCY+NA dizjSlFi89dZJLnKIw/OSeRjEn2NCli2uC5MTy57hab6lcXzH2AqfkVaP8tYsJvoO1/q u3Ng== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q4HtW10QWviEw4JUIjyRC0QVDjGd5CLTm7PsrFDs0xI=; b=FNO9EB0xXoQqqWePtllR022CH52BdHjYJllSi8Z/WjQ5HtgSwYiLEejxRyzdCy6570 fljI3JxrEcDhsjKKj5Kv0K/ToyA+/ncTdmFO/rOBdhU4Sb8GQl+drVsOYRWPEk+4Ysz+ Jq0um6n66oL7sxzvkka7uE81ZI/D9Rop7NI7aJ1NXWMsNAlG/vdVt+/otTs+mIs09fNk ULsl9RXnzA1AqXbdYaOpsrQror4J5sXROuQ8ROZfJCtwlXuV9A+tUFy1o+w9blLdRLjI BSu9yNGGxJOckfmSJNpWbtoFfq0zY0OKOBWlwZoxU2pDHm7K4k8p4OUeJBIEwZn7dHVm 01/A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tJMBmNl/Z0P48zbSdMi6ybpdVImN9J7433YzgIO/F8B3f8YVd97c32Cp0lYnd4FwQ== X-Received: by 10.107.164.202 with SMTP id d71mr468799ioj.80.1468293988103; Mon, 11 Jul 2016 20:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zony (206-188-64-44.cpe.distributel.net. [206.188.64.44]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id o15sm10097465ith.2.2016.07.11.20.26.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 11 Jul 2016 20:26:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8360sehps4.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 09 Jul 2016 17:03:39 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.93 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:120886 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Either really save the original value, or don't call it the "original >> value". We can't use "default value" because that's already used for >> the non-buffer local value, unfortunately. I think "standard value" >> could work, though Drew said it was unclear. > > Why change anything in the wording at all? It won't really change > what is being done, and won't prevent any confusion, because all this > "standard", "original", "default" etc. are not well defined anyway. I had a look at the docs; seems to me "standard" is used consistently, so it makes sense to change to that. Docstring of defcustom: STANDARD is an expression specifying the variable=E2=80=99s standard value. It should not be quoted. It is evaluated once by =E2=80=98defcustom=E2=80=99, and the value is assigned to SYMBOL if the= variable is unbound. The expression itself is also stored, so that Customize can re-evaluate it later to get the standard value. DOC is the variable documentation. Elisp manual description of defcustom: The argument STANDARD is an expression that specifies the standard value for OPTION. ... The expression STANDARD can be evaluated at various other times, too=E2=80=94whenever the customization facility needs to know OPTION=E2= =80=99s standard value. So be sure to use an expression which is harmless to evaluate at any time.