From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Marcin Borkowski Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: update intro to Emacs Lisp programming Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 05:38:33 +0200 Message-ID: <87in7juhc6.fsf@mbork.pl> References: <80DB6796-41FE-4090-B1DD-BF5AE3F4D0CF@scratch.space> <83zi16ofny.fsf@gnu.org> <6A8BB190-FA64-4697-AFDA-EFBEB4886230@scratch.space> <90addb33-6797-b203-4a67-a2a6c201bd81@cs.ucla.edu> <97CEED22-57CE-4715-9239-1557F38AD994@gmail.com> <376AD40E-4EEC-4DC6-ADDA-4E594EAFE1DE@gmail.com> <87bmddvvj8.fsf@mbork.pl> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1526787467 20435 195.159.176.226 (20 May 2018 03:37:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 03:37:47 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: mu4e 1.1.0; emacs 27.0.50 Cc: van@scratch.space, brandelune@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 20 05:37:43 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fKFAF-0005EV-96 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 May 2018 05:37:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45020 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fKFCM-0001gO-9Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 May 2018 23:39:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54071) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fKFCD-0001g4-6W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 May 2018 23:39:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fKFCA-00087S-2Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 May 2018 23:39:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([195.110.48.8]:34380) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fKFC9-00086S-RL; Sat, 19 May 2018 23:39:41 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C4EE658B; Sun, 20 May 2018 05:39:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.mojserwer.eu Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mojserwer.eu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SBMRj2hHDFkU; Sun, 20 May 2018 05:39:33 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (static-dwadziewiec-jedenpiec7.echostar.pl [109.232.29.157]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0DB75E62B5; Sun, 20 May 2018 05:39:33 +0200 (CEST) In-reply-to: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 195.110.48.8 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:225464 Archived-At: On 2018-05-20, at 05:16, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > Apparently, the book was started/written in 1990 (I assume that from the > > copyright notice.) > > The Emacs Manual is even older than that. So what? > > > The words "blog" and "web 2.0" were coined in 1999. > > > Youtube started in 2005. > > This doesn't add up to a coherent argument for a conclusion. > Would you like to try to write a coherent argument for > some conclusion? Let me restate what has been written. > On 2018-05-18, at 15:39, Van L wrote: > >>> Jean-Christophe Helary writes: >>> >>> Let me restate what I wrote. The book was written at a time when computer where not common and programming was a skill you could only learn from *books*. >> >> Do you have a link to a computer museum to strengthen that claim? > > Apparently, the book was started/written in 1990 (I assume that from the > copyright notice.) > > The words "blog" and "web 2.0" were coined in 1999. > > Youtube started in 2005. > > I guess that should be enough. Argument: the popular ways of learning _now_ are blogs (which are the thing of "web 2.0", although nobody seems to be using that term now) and videos (and I think YouTube started the trend of people putting their videos on the Internet). The popular way of learning _when Elisp Intro was written_ was studying books. Conclusion: Jean-Christophe was right, and we do not need a link to a computer museum to strengthen that claim. I thought that was pretty clear. Hth, -- Marcin Borkowski http://mbork.pl