From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Un-deprecating oset Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 12:11:00 +0100 Message-ID: <87imhaljqz.fsf@tcd.ie> References: <87eery1xhe.fsf@bernoul.li> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="96042"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jonas Bernoulli Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 05 13:11:40 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jVvUC-000Otx-Jh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 13:11:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41808 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVvUB-0006Xb-MZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 07:11:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42414) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVvTe-000665-B4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 07:11:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x442.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::442]:46979) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVvTd-0001KH-1p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 07:11:05 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x442.google.com with SMTP id f13so2201012wrm.13 for ; Tue, 05 May 2020 04:11:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd-ie.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=U5BIV677L/NQ6HupPkplDxEeKr0gH63eWWgD0O1E8R8=; b=enejOf+fCuku4Rf9qI0puWTt8eTZ0WEFXRTE51PMo9o/oRP9Ky8UqDOFkGzI5yOivT +MzGOMWWWeZzXcYgzJ6opP27d+8KYTeMY6mcICONDn+fImew4VsOn5rhq3Mb9M4pvaLJ dLTmcSA5taXq+v3/5CbYfhxA2rTk0IbFl9B6o4ohdTA0hUBXoG4rg/u9LF7ipoPf9wTG dwivtXbiWK4DZt+3e0g651PgsN6p8a2LZ128E8oJYCwS+MlNowylKSRnlHRadeIJOt9+ F/zs6LNvvxioeKklKRTr2LJfvcRxgagXWUatYWJ8/WHlvxOb+I3aHEQaRdjP516pLAg1 lxOQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=U5BIV677L/NQ6HupPkplDxEeKr0gH63eWWgD0O1E8R8=; b=jNMxX0ugvFWgr+4IJtxiMbtuxJ2jHjarluV37cLQjXrZI8JyNYtwsVLWwYMdYqQBmm SO3LvqgISB7Iqe3ReX6G4SA5OX2ye9kcZvp6Im13W24V4lsxwHlBsruLKq9bhmxaTaJT Al+aV7fLh1KDw1GcVvcXEervDdz6CsqE6+A24IAeJ05HGHfh2MDJGW76/GbTmCg+T4VR p6dbtRKTBayTMP+z4rpg5fXE9bb2uxfiA1rgMDGO2+S6JWBVCGE+uFBYfIi2K9wvglNW Z/ftJYtJx4GfaB3zdys9ow/fE+A5HV0qgKzWN/pdzjdrEz/c85mKyFl9ohgkIJm5DfNQ HV6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYKH72B3SYQh+QJIP2A6j7wVFgizezq1LpV9cYqzwhVW+m43c5w a+Lu1stukV04kkoq2InXI6jFpA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLJEpOea2OiW/KDcar33nlVFCXwc3KNaGCzTXYSjum8sFWQf+Znijiyumldb1eEwxphJJeocw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:8295:: with SMTP id 21mr2969369wrc.383.1588677062792; Tue, 05 May 2020 04:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([2a02:8084:20e2:c380:92bd:1bfd:38fc:fae2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b12sm2968429wro.18.2020.05.05.04.11.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 05 May 2020 04:11:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87eery1xhe.fsf@bernoul.li> (Jonas Bernoulli's message of "Tue, 05 May 2020 12:34:37 +0200") Received-SPF: none client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::442; envelope-from=contovob@tcd.ie; helo=mail-wr1-x442.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248969 Archived-At: Jonas Bernoulli writes: > TL;DR > > Deprecating (oref object slot value) > in favor of (setf (oref object slot) value) > does *nothing* to increase "namespace sanity", the declared goal. > It does however take away the programmers choice whether to use > `setf' or not, but only when it comes to OOP, which seems unfair. > > -- > Jonas > > PS: I am mostly AFK today. Posting this now anyway because follow > up actions are already being carried out. Sorry, I haven't been following the namespace discussions and my only intention in [1] was to get Emacs building cleanly again. I'll hold off on pushing that for now. [1]: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-05/msg00630.html Two notes I can offer after putting that patch together: 1. While oref has been setf-able for a while, oref-default is not. So Elisp libraries won't be able to write (setf (oref-default ...) ...) until Emacs 28 at the earliest. 2. As the patch indicates, oset is used *a lot*. -- Basil