From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Brooks Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: character sets as they relate to =?utf-8?B?w6LigqzFk1Jhd8Oi?= =?utf-8?B?4oKs?= string literals for elisp Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2021 23:21:44 -0700 Message-ID: <87ilyasmfb.fsf@db48x.net> References: <4209edd83cfee7c84b2d75ebfcd38784fa21b23c.camel@crossproduct.net> <87v92ft9z6.fsf@db48x.net> <87o885tyle.fsf@db48x.net> <83k0it6lu5.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0isu7hz.fsf_-_@db48x.net> <87a6jotszy.fsf@db48x.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8993"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) Cc: eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 06 08:23:22 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mY0Ko-000258-0E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2021 08:23:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44064 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mY0Km-0002tq-5J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2021 02:23:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35742) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mY0JQ-0001kK-94 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2021 02:21:56 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp-out-4.mxes.net ([2605:d100:2f:10::315]:34362) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mY0JO-0007wb-Mn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2021 02:21:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Customer-MUA (mua.mxes.net [10.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4HPPVf09Fkz3c9m; Wed, 6 Oct 2021 02:21:45 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mxes.net; s=mta; t=1633501307; bh=EajDNHLNjOfszSCftVhy/CF01o7/+cJ66T6qo1TRbGw=; h=From:To:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=W5ZwEx5DL0alwnwyoBmqd4YPtfvG3VFAgAeBqAe1wsZs0jvAkXuc1nGOTHAADnQtL ahbgB9AqAWy8hmHUlrVnPm1VaEtyYklNFJ0p32gOyh8D7DLpfoPI+GMvKHqbdGTscU Ynr3nSdyWDWCX66t1Otuvrg+jQ0jXddl3Uzb8mEg= Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGOfPtRkwAAABJQ TFRFpKfbdou67PD6JjJgAwUWXGSeIcyLHgAAAkZJREFUOI1VU8Fy6yAMxLi+Q13fCZ3cnQL3dqTc 7RD+/1feStDXVnXHDuvVSivZTMba2GPdw3gyCGcMAFxTyrTd9dwGoxHiZX9PmRFUHYAQlGGtXY+F Uk0SJOxgJiUEnH1qkitT9D+pQub7qGAmUbR6bu3CvI96Yv6QqkBBMrsyfZccr1/RDXGDTLf4P7ZY glVxe2V+/ACXWO1gvDO9/gDRpFFVmPluvLcmBjd5H6d8DEte+Pbk4rcY/Fa5tLKLOtCZsuQKYhpa LOkYDT7hESya7/WIET3lfQBqX0pwFtbI832Is0ayMUR9B+12xjgPCQ089cfwkCkX6L5TPmRelJTh zMS0Sz1PyjLAMCUWjcmgQLWQMds+e3aaauZDf9dU9A2/8kPVF2odCUoMKHkfjJR+mbgC+DRiycw5 3XSqGe6HmhN/AWjHypkAXOAFW5EiuA1ge2GiZuMb0s1fSEXcATeLUfbyEY2L8yPOmdSsdghQXx3K pz2eoeXuYvMCINVFDrCdNfVUp4eJ6cSEbjbgFjBEvonGGTrgv9cHjAc8aVgSAPoxaONbzfwhDIhR at7IIS7fAGiDSwIA9alhhTBzfA7YM2FY6eMwayrIGK8FDFmshmUA43WqhFtpvoqG9HHaJ7fqtgTz 8EWVkgZgtsylFliHDgk0MB7KAEC45C/rgnGvanNLXyzOeTzcT2nw/N44gfrtYXRQLoz9Q3TgmJRx 2Mx/Q51qzpm+l3m8z2SWBqC5+PZXAtNYlGFf/gKfHfjFkDT4x7od7R+w3Ls+ZdQBuQAAAABJRU5E rkJggg== In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Tue, 5 Oct 2021 18:25:07 -0400") X-Sent-To: Received-SPF: none client-ip=2605:d100:2f:10::315; envelope-from=db48x@db48x.net; helo=smtp-out-4.mxes.net X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276409 Archived-At: Stefan Kangas writes: > My native language is Swedish, and I do work professionally among other > things as a translator from English to Swedish. I have also attempted > translating technical documentation, but usually give up because it's > just too hard. > > Let me just say this, with regards to a fully multi-lingual Emacs. > > In almost all free software projects I have seen, the Swedish > translation is shockingly poor. It is so bad, in fact, that I often > think it would be better to just delete it outright. This work is > usually done by volunteers that are trying their best, out of genuine > love and commitment, which obviously makes such a conversation somewhat > delicate. Ouch. Things do look rather nicer in my optimistic visions. > Even multilingual messages would be a large effort, and in the case of > Emacs it is still not clear that it would be of much use. You would > immediately run into the brick-wall of English documentation, English > symbols, etc. etc. This is certainly true. In the ideal multilingual Emacs in my head everything is translated, even the source code (well, at least the elisp source). Every symbol has an English name as well as translated names, and when you visit a source file the translated names for your language are transparently swapped in and everything is reindented so that it looks right. Then when you save, the reverse transformation is applied. Translated command names would be used in the UI and substituted into the documentation in the same way we already do for key bindings. Obviously since that can=E2=80=99t all happen at once there would be a significant period of time when the translations would be very incomplete. After catching up there would always be a fringe of new contributions that aren=E2=80=99t yet fully translated; new contributions to ELPA and so on. db48x