Re: Communication problems and possible problems with the website

[Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com>]

c.buhtz@posteo.jp writes:

> I accept that most of you does the work in your unpayed free time and 
> that each project has it's own "vibes" and ways to do things.
> I just wan't to show you my experience with my tries to communicate with 
> the project. It is not my goal to vent my anger; and I even have no 
> anger. My goal is to improve the project not only my own experience!

Thank you very much for your feedback! Many of the Org users are coming
from Emacs and are already familiar with many of our conventions. Users
coming from outside Emacs are often underrepresented in the received
feedback.

> And I hope it is OK that I collect all the items in one mail together.

No problem.

> 1.
> This website has a lot of deadlinks.
> https://orgmode.org/worg/exporters/ox-overview.html

I replied in the other email.

> 2.
> This website
> https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-publish-html-tutorial.html
> at the end in sub-section "Further reading" points to the mailinglist 
> but only to the archive 
> (http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/) not to the 
> list-subscription site 
> (https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode).
> And on the archive site there is no link to the subscription site.

I agree that it may be confusing. I recall that I had to google a bit
first time I encountered this issue. I have submitted a report about the
lack of the subscription link GNU mailman bug tracker.

> 3.
> This site does not make clear how to submit bug reports. It even does 
> not make clear that the "way" is unusual (not web-based bug-trackers 
> like bugreport or github). It simply says "Submit a bug report" but does 
> not how. I think the important point and information for the users is 
> that "Bug reports are done via E-Mail" to the mailinglist with 
> manipulating the headers or using Emacs itself.

> 4.
> Search more around I found out that I have to submit bugreports from 
> inside Emacs via M-x org-something....
> Make clear that I have to setup Emacs for sending emails in that case.
> In my case I am not able to submit regular bug-reports because I do not 
> manipulate my headers and my Emacs is not setup for emails.

Could you clarify which particular url you are referring to?
If you go to orgmode.org -> Contribute, you will see the following:

>> Send bug reports. Before sending a bug report, make sure you read the
>> section of the manual on how to provide useful feedback or this other
>> great text: How to Send Bug Reports Effectively.

The word "feedback" links to the manual page at
https://orgmode.org/org.html#Feedback
The page provides all the details about the mailing list and using
org-submit-bug-report + explains what to do if your Emacs is not
configured to send email:

>> If you find problems with Org, or if you have questions, remarks, or
>> ideas about it, please send an email to the Org mailing list
>> emacs-orgmode@gnu.org. You can subscribe to the list from this web
>> page.

>> If you are not sending the Email from within Emacs, please copy and
>> paste the content into your Email program.

If you think that the current wording is confusing, please point out
which parts. We are pretty much blind here on the potential issues for
the newcomers (for obvious reason - we are too familiar with Org).
Pointing to the confusing parts would help a lot.

> 5.
> It is unclear where the repositories for the source code and the code of 
> the website are. If I had found them I would have created a PR/patch for 
> 2.

This is confusing. If you go to orgmode.org, the git link is in the front
page. Also, orgmode.org -> Install will bring you to the relevant page
of the manual, which provides all possible installation options
including cloning the official git repo.

Similarly, https://orgmode.org/worg/ has the links to its code in the
first heading:

>> Worg documentation on your machine
>> git clone https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg

Also, https://orgmode.org/ has

>> Site created by TEC with Org mode licensed under the GNU FDL 1.3

linking to https://orgmode.org/worg/org-site-colophon.html


Do you recall the urls where you tried to search for the source code?
Could you give more details on what confused you?

Appreciate your feedback.

Best,
Ihor