bug#74775: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

bug#74775: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2024 01:04:56 +0200
> From:  Björn Bidar via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
> 
> Update browse-url-kde's variables.

Thanks, but when we change the default value of a user option, we need
to update its :version tag (so that commands like customize-changed
could notice that).

> -(defcustom browse-url-kde-program "kfmclient"
> +(defcustom browse-url-kde-program "kde-open"
>    "The name by which to invoke the KDE web browser."

Should we offer the other name as a (non-default) alternative?  It is
still available, right?

>    :type 'string

Should this be 'file instead?

> -(defcustom browse-url-kde-args '("openURL")
> +(defcustom browse-url-kde-args nil
>    "A list of strings defining options for `browse-url-kde-program'."

Should the default value depend on the value of
browse-url-kde-program?  E.g., if that is customized to kfmclient, the
value of this variable should probably not be '("openURL"), right?

bug#74775: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

[Björn Bidar via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2024 01:04:56 +0200
>> From:  Björn Bidar via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
>> 
>> Update browse-url-kde's variables.
>
> Thanks, but when we change the default value of a user option, we need
> to update its :version tag (so that commands like customize-changed
> could notice that).

Will do good call.

>> -(defcustom browse-url-kde-program "kfmclient"
>> +(defcustom browse-url-kde-program "kde-open"
>>    "The name by which to invoke the KDE web browser."
>
> Should we offer the other name as a (non-default) alternative?  It is
> still available, right?

The other one is still available but kde-open is then installed at the
same time too. Both to the same thing it doesn't make sense to still
offer kfmclient here.

>>    :type 'string
>
> Should this be 'file instead?

Does 'file for programs in path?

>> -(defcustom browse-url-kde-args '("openURL")
>> +(defcustom browse-url-kde-args nil
>>    "A list of strings defining options for `browse-url-kde-program'."
>
> Should the default value depend on the value of
> browse-url-kde-program?  E.g., if that is customized to kfmclient, the
> value of this variable should probably not be '("openURL"), right?

For kfmclient it should be '("openURL") for others not.

I think it would make sense to apply this change to Emacs 30 too as it
isn't a functionality change but a fix to not use kfmclient which is not
installed anymore these days as the default file manager for KDE is
Dolphin and not Konqueror which includes kfmclient.

bug#74775: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:03:30 +0200, Björn Bidar via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> said:

    Björn> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
    >>> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2024 01:04:56 +0200
    >>> From:  Björn Bidar via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
    >>> the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
    >>> 
    >>> Update browse-url-kde's variables.
    >> 
    >> Thanks, but when we change the default value of a user option, we need
    >> to update its :version tag (so that commands like customize-changed
    >> could notice that).

    Björn> Will do good call.

I already did that this morning 😀

    >>> :type 'string
    >> 
    >> Should this be 'file instead?

    Björn> Does 'file for programs in path?

Yes (although Iʼm not sure customize actually checks that)

    Björn> I think it would make sense to apply this change to Emacs 30 too as it
    Björn> isn't a functionality change but a fix to not use kfmclient which is not
    Björn> installed anymore these days as the default file manager for KDE is
    Björn> Dolphin and not Konqueror which includes kfmclient.

If I squint I could call it a regression, but Iʼm not an Emacs
maintainer 😺

Robert
-- 

bug#74775: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de>
> Cc: 74775@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:03:30 +0200
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >>    :type 'string
> >
> > Should this be 'file instead?
> 
> Does 'file for programs in path?

No, but the user could enter an absolute file name here, in which case
'file will be more useful.

> >> -(defcustom browse-url-kde-args '("openURL")
> >> +(defcustom browse-url-kde-args nil
> >>    "A list of strings defining options for `browse-url-kde-program'."
> >
> > Should the default value depend on the value of
> > browse-url-kde-program?  E.g., if that is customized to kfmclient, the
> > value of this variable should probably not be '("openURL"), right?
> 
> For kfmclient it should be '("openURL") for others not.
> 
> I think it would make sense to apply this change to Emacs 30 too as it
> isn't a functionality change but a fix to not use kfmclient which is not
> installed anymore these days as the default file manager for KDE is
> Dolphin and not Konqueror which includes kfmclient.

I'd prefer not to change defaults in Emacs 30 at this point, but if
you think the current defaults might be not useful, then I'll ask in
what version(s) of current systems using KDE this change happened, and
how probable is it that users are still using those old versions?

Installing on master doesn't need to delve into these issues, since if
we are wrong, we have enough time for users to holler and for us to
fix.  Emacs 30, OTOH, is very close to the release, so we must be very
certain this change cannot cause any trouble.

bug#74775: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

[Björn Bidar via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de>
>> Cc: 74775@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:03:30 +0200
>> 
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>> >>    :type 'string
>> >
>> > Should this be 'file instead?
>> 
>> Does 'file for programs in path?
>
> No, but the user could enter an absolute file name here, in which case
> 'file will be more useful.

I think it's unlikely but possible sure.

>> >> -(defcustom browse-url-kde-args '("openURL")
>> >> +(defcustom browse-url-kde-args nil
>> >>    "A list of strings defining options for `browse-url-kde-program'."
>> >
>> > Should the default value depend on the value of
>> > browse-url-kde-program?  E.g., if that is customized to kfmclient, the
>> > value of this variable should probably not be '("openURL"), right?
>> 
>> For kfmclient it should be '("openURL") for others not.
>> 
>> I think it would make sense to apply this change to Emacs 30 too as it
>> isn't a functionality change but a fix to not use kfmclient which is not
>> installed anymore these days as the default file manager for KDE is
>> Dolphin and not Konqueror which includes kfmclient.
>
> I'd prefer not to change defaults in Emacs 30 at this point, but if
> you think the current defaults might be not useful, then I'll ask in
> what version(s) of current systems using KDE this change happened, and
> how probable is it that users are still using those old versions?

The change happened in KDE 4 which was released in 2008. The change
would break users of KDE3 which isn't supported anymore since 15 years
by now.
So the change would fix the behavior of users which are still on KDE 4
or 5
(Technically KDE Plasma in this context after KDE3) and those which use
the latest stable KDE Plasma 6.

> Installing on master doesn't need to delve into these issues, since if
> we are wrong, we have enough time for users to holler and for us to
> fix.  Emacs 30, OTOH, is very close to the release, so we must be very
> certain this change cannot cause any trouble.

I don't think there's a chance for that.

If you decide to install the change on Emacs 30. Do you want me to send
the patch again with the changes mentioned by you i.e. defcustom version
and type?

bug#74775: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de>
> Cc: 74775@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:41:32 +0200
> 
> > I'd prefer not to change defaults in Emacs 30 at this point, but if
> > you think the current defaults might be not useful, then I'll ask in
> > what version(s) of current systems using KDE this change happened, and
> > how probable is it that users are still using those old versions?
> 
> The change happened in KDE 4 which was released in 2008. The change
> would break users of KDE3 which isn't supported anymore since 15 years
> by now.
> So the change would fix the behavior of users which are still on KDE 4
> or 5
> (Technically KDE Plasma in this context after KDE3) and those which use
> the latest stable KDE Plasma 6.
> 
> > Installing on master doesn't need to delve into these issues, since if
> > we are wrong, we have enough time for users to holler and for us to
> > fix.  Emacs 30, OTOH, is very close to the release, so we must be very
> > certain this change cannot cause any trouble.
> 
> I don't think there's a chance for that.

Famous last words...

> If you decide to install the change on Emacs 30. Do you want me to send
> the patch again with the changes mentioned by you i.e. defcustom version
> and type?

I still think we should install this on master.  AFAIK, we had exactly
zero complaints about these defaults, perhaps for the simple reason
that it is easy to customize a user option if its default is wrong for
a user.

bug#74775: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

[Björn Bidar via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de>
>> Cc: 74775@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:41:32 +0200
>> 
>> > I'd prefer not to change defaults in Emacs 30 at this point, but if
>> > you think the current defaults might be not useful, then I'll ask in
>> > what version(s) of current systems using KDE this change happened, and
>> > how probable is it that users are still using those old versions?
>> 
>> The change happened in KDE 4 which was released in 2008. The change
>> would break users of KDE3 which isn't supported anymore since 15 years
>> by now.
>> So the change would fix the behavior of users which are still on KDE 4
>> or 5
>> (Technically KDE Plasma in this context after KDE3) and those which use
>> the latest stable KDE Plasma 6.
>> 
>> > Installing on master doesn't need to delve into these issues, since if
>> > we are wrong, we have enough time for users to holler and for us to
>> > fix.  Emacs 30, OTOH, is very close to the release, so we must be very
>> > certain this change cannot cause any trouble.
>> 
>> I don't think there's a chance for that.
>
> Famous last words...

KDE3 isn't used anymore even if so any release after has significantly
by more users.
Why support KDE3? 

>> If you decide to install the change on Emacs 30. Do you want me to send
>> the patch again with the changes mentioned by you i.e. defcustom version
>> and type?
>
> I still think we should install this on master.  AFAIK, we had exactly
> zero complaints about these defaults, perhaps for the simple reason
> that it is easy to customize a user option if its default is wrong for
> a user.

Most users would probably set the `browse-url-browser-function' or the
default detected happens to be the right default function.

bug#74775: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de>
> Cc: 74775@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2024 18:44:44 +0200
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> > Installing on master doesn't need to delve into these issues, since if
> >> > we are wrong, we have enough time for users to holler and for us to
> >> > fix.  Emacs 30, OTOH, is very close to the release, so we must be very
> >> > certain this change cannot cause any trouble.
> >> 
> >> I don't think there's a chance for that.
> >
> > Famous last words...
> 
> KDE3 isn't used anymore even if so any release after has significantly
> by more users.
> Why support KDE3? 

Because it is completely legitimate for people running old systems
with KDE3 to want to install a new Emacs.

> >> If you decide to install the change on Emacs 30. Do you want me to send
> >> the patch again with the changes mentioned by you i.e. defcustom version
> >> and type?
> >
> > I still think we should install this on master.  AFAIK, we had exactly
> > zero complaints about these defaults, perhaps for the simple reason
> > that it is easy to customize a user option if its default is wrong for
> > a user.
> 
> Most users would probably set the `browse-url-browser-function' or the
> default detected happens to be the right default function.

Sorry, I couldn't understand what you want to say here.

bug#74775: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

[Björn Bidar via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de>
>> Cc: 74775@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2024 18:44:44 +0200
>> 
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>> >> > Installing on master doesn't need to delve into these issues, since if
>> >> > we are wrong, we have enough time for users to holler and for us to
>> >> > fix.  Emacs 30, OTOH, is very close to the release, so we must be very
>> >> > certain this change cannot cause any trouble.
>> >> 
>> >> I don't think there's a chance for that.
>> >
>> > Famous last words...
>> 
>> KDE3 isn't used anymore even if so any release after has significantly
>> by more users.
>> Why support KDE3? 
>
> Because it is completely legitimate for people running old systems
> with KDE3 to want to install a new Emacs.

It is a strange thought to not apply a fix for less old or current
system just because potentially some person might install the next
Emacs release on a almost 20 year old system. 


>> >> If you decide to install the change on Emacs 30. Do you want me to send
>> >> the patch again with the changes mentioned by you i.e. defcustom version
>> >> and type?
>> >
>> > I still think we should install this on master.  AFAIK, we had exactly
>> > zero complaints about these defaults, perhaps for the simple reason
>> > that it is easy to customize a user option if its default is wrong for
>> > a user.
>> 
>> Most users would probably set the `browse-url-browser-function' or the
>> default detected happens to be the right default function.
>
> Sorry, I couldn't understand what you want to say here.

I'm saying that this issue doesn't come up to most users because they
change these options before trying to use the defaults in this instance.

bug#74775: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de>
> Cc: 74775@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2024 00:54:20 +0200
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> KDE3 isn't used anymore even if so any release after has significantly
> >> by more users.
> >> Why support KDE3? 
> >
> > Because it is completely legitimate for people running old systems
> > with KDE3 to want to install a new Emacs.
> 
> It is a strange thought to not apply a fix for less old or current
> system just because potentially some person might install the next
> Emacs release on a almost 20 year old system. 

That's not the reason: we will apply the change to master without any
delays.  The reason not to install this in Emacs 30 is because Emacs
30 will be released VSN, and we don't have any time to get feedback
from people who might be adversely affected by this change, even
though we consider such breakage unlikely.  Installing on master
allows us ample time for collecting such feedback, or deciding by lack
thereof that the change cannot break anything.

> >> Most users would probably set the `browse-url-browser-function' or the
> >> default detected happens to be the right default function.
> >
> > Sorry, I couldn't understand what you want to say here.
> 
> I'm saying that this issue doesn't come up to most users because they
> change these options before trying to use the defaults in this instance.

In which case this is not urgent, and installing on master should be
enough.

Thanks.

bug#74775: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de>
> Cc: 74775@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2024 00:54:20 +0200
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> KDE3 isn't used anymore even if so any release after has significantly
> >> by more users.
> >> Why support KDE3? 
> >
> > Because it is completely legitimate for people running old systems
> > with KDE3 to want to install a new Emacs.
> 
> It is a strange thought to not apply a fix for less old or current
> system just because potentially some person might install the next
> Emacs release on a almost 20 year old system. 

That's not the reason: we installed the change on master without any
delays.  The reason not to install this in Emacs 30 is because Emacs
30 will be released VSN, and we don't have any time to get feedback
from people who might be adversely affected by this change, even
though we consider such breakage unlikely.  Installing on master
allows us ample time for collecting such feedback, or deciding by lack
thereof that the change cannot break anything.

> >> Most users would probably set the `browse-url-browser-function' or the
> >> default detected happens to be the right default function.
> >
> > Sorry, I couldn't understand what you want to say here.
> 
> I'm saying that this issue doesn't come up to most users because they
> change these options before trying to use the defaults in this instance.

In which case this is not urgent, and installing on master should be
enough.

Thanks.

bug#74775: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

[Stefan Kangas]

Björn Bidar via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text
editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> writes:

> From 412418551717c788320a3d1f04a68f47f263c968 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: =?UTF-8?q?Bj=C3=B6rn=20Bidar?= <bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de>
> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2024 00:43:29 +0200
> Subject: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables
>
> * lisp/browse-url.el (browse-url-kde-program)
> (browse-url-kde-args):
> Update defaults to more modern alternative to kfmclient.
> Kfmclient is only installed when Konqueror is installed which isn't the
> default file-manager since KDE4.
> In contrast it is more likely that kde-open is installed as it is
> required by Plasma, it exists since KDE4.
> `browse-url-kde-args` isn't required anymore but kept to not break
> compatibility.
> ---
>  lisp/net/browse-url.el | 4 ++--
>  1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
>
> diff --git a/lisp/net/browse-url.el b/lisp/net/browse-url.el
> index c10bc671a88..5a54d653720 100644
> --- a/lisp/net/browse-url.el
> +++ b/lisp/net/browse-url.el
> @@ -517,12 +517,12 @@ browse-url-text-input-delay
>    :type 'number
>    :version "23.1")
>
> -(defcustom browse-url-kde-program "kfmclient"
> +(defcustom browse-url-kde-program "kde-open"
>    "The name by which to invoke the KDE web browser."
>    :type 'string
>    :version "21.1")
>
> -(defcustom browse-url-kde-args '("openURL")
> +(defcustom browse-url-kde-args nil
>    "A list of strings defining options for `browse-url-kde-program'."
>    :type '(repeat (string :tag "Argument")))
>
> --
> 2.45.2

Thanks, installed on master as commit 63b9ddda8f8.

I'm therefore closing this bug report.

bug#74775: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

[Björn Bidar via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2923 bytes --]

Tags: patch


Update browse-url-kde's variables.



In GNU Emacs 31.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-suse-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version
3.24.43, cairo version 1.18.2)
Repository revision: 69e1f787528eaf2f223c53a6ff518ba4f984bc17
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101014
System Description: openSUSE Tumbleweed

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[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #2: 0001-Update-browse-url-kde-variables.patch --]
[-- Type: text/patch, Size: 1371 bytes --]

From 412418551717c788320a3d1f04a68f47f263c968 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: =?UTF-8?q?Bj=C3=B6rn=20Bidar?= <bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2024 00:43:29 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] Update browse-url-kde variables

* lisp/browse-url.el (browse-url-kde-program)
(browse-url-kde-args):
Update defaults to more modern alternative to kfmclient.
Kfmclient is only installed when Konqueror is installed which isn't the
default file-manager since KDE4.
In contrast it is more likely that kde-open is installed as it is
required by Plasma, it exists since KDE4.
`browse-url-kde-args` isn't required anymore but kept to not break
compatibility.
---
 lisp/net/browse-url.el | 4 ++--
 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)

diff --git a/lisp/net/browse-url.el b/lisp/net/browse-url.el
index c10bc671a88..5a54d653720 100644
--- a/lisp/net/browse-url.el
+++ b/lisp/net/browse-url.el
@@ -517,12 +517,12 @@ browse-url-text-input-delay
   :type 'number
   :version "23.1")
 
-(defcustom browse-url-kde-program "kfmclient"
+(defcustom browse-url-kde-program "kde-open"
   "The name by which to invoke the KDE web browser."
   :type 'string
   :version "21.1")
 
-(defcustom browse-url-kde-args '("openURL")
+(defcustom browse-url-kde-args nil
   "A list of strings defining options for `browse-url-kde-program'."
   :type '(repeat (string :tag "Argument")))
 
-- 
2.45.2