[gnu.org #332913] Minor web sales thing (not urgent)

[gnu.org #332913] Minor web sales thing (not urgent)

[Yavor Doganov via RT]

Hi Deborah,

> Here, http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/#Manuals the Emacs Lisp
> Reference Manual is described as being for sale which it isn't.
> 
> Could you replace:
> "You can order any of these manuals in printed form from the Free
> Software Foundation."
> 
> with:
> "The Emacs Manual and Introduction to Emacs Lisp can be <a href=
> "https://agia.fsf.org/order/"> purchased</a> in printed form from the
> Free Software Foundation. The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual is out of
> print, but you can read or download the whole thing <a
> href="http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-lisp-intro/emacs-lisp-
> intro.html">here.</a>"

This seems wrong to me -- Emacs Lisp Intro (by Bob Chassell) is not the
same as the Emacs Lisp Reference Manual.  Anyway, CC-ing
<emacs-devel@gnu.org> because the new release is imminent and the
webpage also has some pending changes.  If it is not urgent, perhaps it
would be better to leave the text as it is (I hope that FSF will offer
the new versions of all three manuals).

[Emacs developers: Please reply to <webmasters@gnu.org> or make sure to
CC Deborah Nicholson <deborah@fsf.org>. Thanks.]

Re: [gnu.org #332913] Minor web sales thing (not urgent)

[Yavor Doganov]

Meanwhile Deborah confirmed that the Emacs Lisp Manual is out of
print.  She said that it'll take at least a few months to arrange the
printing for the new versions, so it is necessary to correct this
information as she suggests.  May I change the current homepage
accordingly?

(Also, Romain or whoever deals with the webpage update -- please don't
forget to add this info to the new-style page as well.)

Re: [gnu.org #332913] Minor web sales thing (not urgent)

[Richard Stallman]

    Meanwhile Deborah confirmed that the Emacs Lisp Manual is out of
    print.  She said that it'll take at least a few months to arrange the
    printing for the new versions, so it is necessary to correct this
    information as she suggests.

It should not take months.  It should take weeks.

Re: [gnu.org #332913] Minor web sales thing (not urgent)

[Yavor Doganov]

В Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:57:22 -0400, Richard Stallman написа:

> It should not take months.  It should take weeks.

Maybe, I'm not familiar with the process.  She described it as "long" and
also asked to correct etc/ORDERS.  If I understood you correctly, should I
tell her that there won't be any changes to the homepage?

Re: [gnu.org #332913] Minor web sales thing (not urgent)

[Richard Stallman]

    Maybe, I'm not familiar with the process.  She described it as "long" and
    also asked to correct etc/ORDERS.  If I understood you correctly, should I
    tell her that there won't be any changes to the homepage?

I will work this out with her.

Re: [gnu.org #332913] Minor web sales thing (not urgent)

[Romain Francoise]

Yavor Doganov <yavor@gnu.org> writes:

> (Also, Romain or whoever deals with the webpage update -- please
> don't forget to add this info to the new-style page as well.)

Could you send us your updated version of emacs.html?  The patch you
sent a while ago doesn't apply anymore, and it's one giant hunk.

Thanks.

Re: [gnu.org #332913] Minor web sales thing (not urgent)

[Yavor Doganov]

Romain Francoise wrote:
> 
> Could you send us your updated version of emacs.html? 

Sure, attached.  I deleted the list of machines and replaced it with
the text as proposed by RMS (substituting "Intel-type" with
"PC-style").

> The patch you sent a while ago doesn't apply anymore, [...]

This is because Karl Berry went on and installed the notice about the
lack of printed versions of the Emacs Lisp Manual...

<!--#include virtual="/server/header.html" -->
<title>GNU Emacs - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)</title>
<!--#include virtual="/server/banner.html" -->
<h2>GNU Emacs</h2>

<!-- This document uses XHTML 1.0 Strict, but may be served as -->
<!-- text/html.  Please ensure that markup style considers -->
<!-- appendex C of the XHTML 1.0 standard. See validator.w3.org. -->

<!-- Please ensure links are consistent with Apache's MultiView. -->
<!-- Change include statements to be consistent with the relevant -->
<!-- language, where necessary. -->

<h3 id="Whatis">What is Emacs?</h3>

<p>
  To quote the Emacs Manual:
</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>
    Emacs is the extensible, customizable, self-documenting
    real-time display editor.
  </p>
</blockquote>

<p>
  If this seems to be a bit of a mouthful, an easier explanation is
  Emacs is a text editor and more.  At its core is an interpreter for
  Emacs Lisp (&ldquo;elisp&rdquo;, for short), a dialect of
  the <a href="#LispPointers">Lisp programming language</a> with
  extensions to support text editing.
</p>

<p>
  Some of the features of GNU Emacs include:
</p>

<ul>
  <li>Content sensitive major modes for a wide variety of file types,
    from plain text to source code to HTML files.</li>

  <li>Complete online documentation, including a tutorial for new
    users.</li>

  <li>Highly extensible through the Emacs Lisp language.</li>

  <li>Support for many languages and their scripts, including all the
    European &ldquo;Latin&rdquo; scripts, Russian, Greek, Japanese,
    Chinese, Korean, Thai, Vietnamese, Lao, Ethiopian, and some Indian
    scripts.  (Sorry, Mayan hieroglyphs are not supported.)</li>

  <li>A large number of extensions which add other functionality.  The
    GNU Emacs distribution includes many extensions; many others
    are <a href="#FindingPackages">available separately</a>&mdash;even
    a <a href="http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/w3/">web
    browser</a>.</li>
</ul>

<h3 id="Releases">Releases</h3>

<p>
  GNU Emacs is a rapidly developed project.  Extensions require time
  to develop right and test thoroughly.
</p>

<h4 id="Development">Development &amp; &ldquo;Coming Soon&rdquo;</h4>

<p>
  GNU Emacs is actively being developed,
</p>

<ul>
  <li>The next release will
    have <a href="http://savannah.gnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/emacs/emacs/etc/NEWS">
    many new features</a>, but no one specific essential feature.</li>
  <li>A subsequent release will have
    improved <a href="http://www.unicode.org">Unicode</a> support.</li>
  <li>For more info read next release's
    anticipated <a href="http://savannah.gnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/emacs/emacs/etc/TODO">TODOs</a>.</li>
  <li>The <a href="http://savannah.gnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/emacs/">GNU
    Emacs CVS repository</a> is available for general access courtesy
    of <a href="http://savannah.gnu.org/">savannah.gnu.org</a>.</li>
</ul>

<h4 id="Stable">Current Stable Release</h4>

<ul>
  <li>Latest stable release:
    <!-- Update Token Below -->
    <b>21.4</b> (Feb 6, 2005)
    <ul>
      <li>Emacs version 21 supports variable width and height fonts,
	playing sounds and the inclusion of images in a document, as
	well as tool bars, plus nicer menus and scroll bars.</li>
      <li>The latest release has some Unicode support
	(more <a href="#Development">coming</a>).</li>
    </ul>
  </li>
  <li>For more info read its <a href="NEWS.21.3">News</a> file.</li>
  <li>To download visit the <a href="#Obtaining">obtaining</a>
  section.</li>
</ul>

<h4 id="History">Release History</h4>

<p>
  Some of GNU Emacs' release history and accompanying release
  announcements,
</p>

<ul>
  <!-- Update Token Below -->
  <li>Feb 6, 2005 - Emacs 21.4 released (fixing a security hole)</li>
  <li>March 24, 2003
    - <a href="http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu-emacs/2003-03/msg00000.html">
    Emacs 21.3 released</a></li>
  <li>March 18, 2002
    - <a href="http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu-emacs/2002-03/msg00000.html">
    Emacs 21.2 released</a></li>
  <li>October 28, 2001
    - <a href="http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu-emacs/2001-10/msg00009.html">
    Emacs 21.1 released</a></li>
</ul>

<h3 id="Platforms">Supported Platforms</h3>

<p>
  Emacs 21 runs on these operating systems regardless of the machine
  type:
</p>

<ul>
  <li>AIX 4.3.3 and higher</li>
  <li>FreeBSD</li>
  <li>GNU/Linux</li>
  <li>Mac-OS X</li>
  <li>MS DOS</li>
  <li>MS Windows</li>
  <li>NetBSD</li>
  <li>OpenBSD</li>
  <li>Solaris</li>
  <li>SunOS</li>
  <li>Ultrix</li>
</ul>

<p>
  Most people use Emacs on ordinary PC-style machines, but Emacs
  supports nearly all the computers that have been used in the past
  two decades.  See <kbd>etc/MACHINES</kbd> in the Emacs distribution
  for a list of platforms that Emacs supports.
</p>

<p>
  Next, here is a table listing some additional operating systems
  which Emacs supports.  We have listed an operating system here if it
  can run on more than one machine type, or if other operating systems
  can also run on the same machine type.
</p>

<p>
  Many of the computer types listed above always or usually run one
  particular operating system developed by the computer manufacturer.
  (Often this is a variant of Unix.)  We have not listed the names of
  those operating systems here.
</p>

<ul>
    <li>Berkeley Unix (BSD) 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4</li>
    <li>Esix</li>
    <li>Microport</li>
    <li>SCO Unix</li>
    <li>System V rel 0, rel 2, rel 2.2, rel 3, rel 4.0.3, rel 4.0.4</li>
    <li>Uniplus 5.2</li>
    <li>Xenix</li>
</ul>

<h3 id="Why">Why is it called Emacs?</h3>

<p>
  The name &ldquo;Emacs&rdquo; was originally chosen as an
  abbreviation of Editor MACroS.
</p>

<p>
  The original Emacs implementation was written for the Incompatible
  Timesharing System (ITS) as a collection of TECO macros for ITS
  TECO.  There was a custom of giving such macro packages names ending
  in &ldquo;mac&rdquo; or &ldquo;macs&rdquo;.  A further reason for
  choosing this particular name was that the abbreviation
  &ldquo;e&rdquo; was unused at the time on ITS.
</p>

<p>
  The Emacs FAQ (<a href="/software/emacs/emacs-faq.html">html</a>,
  <a href="/software/emacs/emacs-faq.text">plain text</a>, Texinfo in
  the Emacs source distribution) contains a longer explanation, as
  well as a brief history of Emacs.
</p>

<h3 id="Obtaining">Obtaining GNU Emacs</h3>

<p>
  GNU Emacs can be obtained
  from <a href="http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/emacs/">
  http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/emacs/</a>, or from a local FTP
  <a href="/order/ftp.html">mirror</a>.
</p>

<p>
  The <a href="http://savannah.gnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/emacs/">GNU
  Emacs CVS repository</a> is available for general access through
  <a href="http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/emacs/">savannah.gnu.org's
  emacs project page</a>.
</p>

<h3 id="Help">Getting Help with GNU Emacs</h3>

<p>
  Information on getting help with GNU software in general is
  available at the <a href="/help/gethelp.html">Get Help with GNU
  Software</a> page.
</p>

<h4 id="Manuals">Manuals</h4>

<p>
  The Free Software Foundation publishes three
  <a href="/doc/doc.html">manuals about GNU Emacs</a>.  They are the
  <cite><a href="/software/emacs/manual/index.html">Emacs
  Manual</a></cite>,
  the <cite><a href="/software/emacs/emacs-lisp-intro/emacs-lisp-intro.html">
  Introduction to Emacs Lisp Programming</a></cite>, and the
  <cite><a href="/software/emacs/elisp-manual/elisp.html">Emacs Lisp
  Reference Manual</a></cite>.  The Emacs Manual and Introduction to
  Emacs Lisp can be <a href="https://agia.fsf.org/order/">purchased in
  printed form</a> from the Free Software Foundation. The Emacs Lisp
  Reference Manual is currently out of print, but you can read or
  download the whole
  thing <a href="/software/emacs/elisp-manual/">here</a>.
</p>

<p>
  The source code for the Emacs Manual is included in the Emacs
  distribution itself.  The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual is available
  as a separate distribution on ftp.gnu.org. The Emacs Reference Card
  (texinfo source) is
  also <a href="/software/emacs/refcard-cs.tex">translated into
  Czech</a>.
</p>

<p>
  Here are the <a href="/software/emacs/its-cover.png">cover</a> of
  the original Emacs Manual for ITS,
  the <a href="/software/emacs/niu.png">cover</a> of the original
  Emacs Manual for Twenex, and the only cartoon I've ever drawn,
  <a href="/software/emacs/self-doc-extensible-editor.png"> the
  Self-Documenting Extensible Editor</a>.
</p>

<h4 id="HelpFAQ">FAQ</h4>

<ul>
  <li>The <a href="/software/emacs/emacs-faq.html">Emacs FAQ, html</a>.</li>
  <li>The <a href="/software/emacs/emacs-faq.text">Emacs FAQ, plain text</a>.</li>
  <li>The <a href="/software/emacs/windows/ntemacs.html">Emacs FAQ for
    the Microsoft Windows port</a>.</li>
  <li>The FAQ is maintained as part of the Emacs distribution, so the
    Texinfo source for these documents are in the Emacs sources.</li>
</ul>

<h4 id="HelpMailing">Mailing Lists</h4>

<p>
  The mailing list
  <a href="http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs">
  help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org</a> is specifically for asking
  for help with GNU Emacs.  This is equivalent to the newsgroup
  <a href="news:gnu.emacs.help">gnu.emacs.help</a>.
</p>

<p>
  The <a href="http://savannah.gnu.org/mail/?group_id=40">Savannah page
  for Emacs mailing lists</a> lists some more lists related to Emacs.
</p>

<p>
  There are other <a href="http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/">GNU
  mailing lists and newsgroups</a>, including several on GNU Emacs and
  its extensions.
</p>

<h4 id="HelpUsenet">Usenet</h4>

<p>
  There is a newsgroup specifically for asking for help with GNU Emacs
  <a href="news:gnu.emacs.help">gnu.emacs.help</a>. This newsgroup is
  gatewayed automatically to the mailing list
  <a href="mailto:help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org">&lt;help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org&gt;</a>,
  so anything you post on one of them appears on the other as
  well.
</p>

<h3 id="FindingPackages">Finding packages for GNU Emacs</h3>

<p>
  If you are looking for ELisp packages, check out the following
  resources:
</p>

<ul>
  <li><a href="http://www.emacswiki.org/">the Emacs Wiki</a> (see below)</li>

  <li>the <a href="/software/emacs/emacs-faq.text">Emacs FAQ</a>, under the
    sections <cite>Finding/Getting Emacs and Related packages</cite>
    and <cite>Major Emacs Lisp Packages, Emacs Extensions, and Related
    Programs</cite>.</li>
</ul>

<h3 id="Further">Further Information</h3>

<p>
  The <a href="http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/emacs">Savannah Emacs
  page</a> has additional information about Emacs, including CVS
  access to the Emacs development sources.
</p>

<p>
  The <a href="http://www.emacswiki.org/">Emacs Wiki</a> is a
  community website which collects ELisp code, questions and answers
  related to ELisp code and style; introductions to ELisp packages and
  links to their sources; complete manuals or documentation fragments;
  comments on features, differences, and history of different Emacs
  versions, flavors, and ports; jokes; pointers to clones and Emacs
  look-alikes, as well as references to other Emacs related
  information on the Web.
</p>

<p>
  If you haven't had any experience with Lisp, you can find some
  useful information at <a name="LispPointers"
  href="http://www.lisp.org/table/contents.htm">The Association of
  Lisp Users</a>.
</p>

<p>
  We also have a copy of
  the <a href="/software/emacs/emacs-paper.html">1981 paper by Richard
  Stallman</a>, describing the design of the original Emacs and the
  lessons to be learned from it.
</p>

<p>
  There is also <a href="/gnu/rms-lisp.html">a transcript of a
  speech, <cite>My Lisp Experiences and the Development of GNU
  Emacs</cite></a> given by Richard Stallman at the International Lisp
  Conference on 28 Oct 2002.
</p>

<h3 id="YouHelp">How to Help with GNU Emacs</h3>

<p>
  To contact the maintainers of Emacs, either to report a bug or to
  contribute fixes or improvements, send mail
  to <a href="mailto:bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org">&lt;bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org&gt;</a>.
</p>

<h3 id="GNUEmacsFun">GNU Emacs Fun</h3>

<ul>
  <li>April Fool Mail - <a href="/fun/jokes/gnuemacs.html">emacs
    rewrite</a></li>

  <li><a href="/fun/humor.html">More</a> humors related to GNU Emacs
    and others</li>
</ul>

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