FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Adam Spiers]

Hi Carsten,

Another simple idea - subject line is pretty much self-explanatory I
think: would be great to be able to toggle timestamps between [] and
<>.

Why?  Say I have an event in my diary.org file, and am subsequently
told my presence at the event is no longer necessary.  Consequently I
would like to keep it in the file for reference, to track colleagues'
movements or in case my presence is re-required, but I don't want the
event to appear in the agenda.

By the way, I probably could have coded this in the time it took to
write the mail, but I thought that until I've sent a piece of paper to
the FSF assigning rights for code contributed to org-mode and emacs,
it would be better to let Carsten write it.  Is that correct or flawed
thinking?

Re: FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Rick Moynihan]

Adam Spiers wrote:
> Hi Carsten,
> 
> Another simple idea - subject line is pretty much self-explanatory I
> think: would be great to be able to toggle timestamps between [] and
> <>.
> 
> Why?  Say I have an event in my diary.org file, and am subsequently
> told my presence at the event is no longer necessary.  Consequently I
> would like to keep it in the file for reference, to track colleagues'
> movements or in case my presence is re-required, but I don't want the
> event to appear in the agenda.
> 
> By the way, I probably could have coded this in the time it took to
> write the mail, but I thought that until I've sent a piece of paper to
> the FSF assigning rights for code contributed to org-mode and emacs,
> it would be better to let Carsten write it.  Is that correct or flawed
> thinking?
> 

This seems like a good idea.  Another related one occurred to me today 
(if it's necessary) which is toggling between the two list indicators.

e.g.

- foo
- bar
   - baz |<-- Point

Calling the toggle-list-indicator function at the point will cause the 
list indicator to change from a - to a + (and vice versa).

R.

Re: FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Adam Spiers]

Rick Moynihan (rick@calicojack.co.uk) wrote:
> Adam Spiers wrote:
> >Hi Carsten,
> >
> >Another simple idea - subject line is pretty much self-explanatory I
> >think: would be great to be able to toggle timestamps between [] and
> ><>.
> >
> >Why?  Say I have an event in my diary.org file, and am subsequently
> >told my presence at the event is no longer necessary.  Consequently I
> >would like to keep it in the file for reference, to track colleagues'
> >movements or in case my presence is re-required, but I don't want the
> >event to appear in the agenda.
> >
> >By the way, I probably could have coded this in the time it took to
> >write the mail, but I thought that until I've sent a piece of paper to
> >the FSF assigning rights for code contributed to org-mode and emacs,
> >it would be better to let Carsten write it.  Is that correct or flawed
> >thinking?
> >
> 
> This seems like a good idea.  Another related one occurred to me today 
> (if it's necessary) which is toggling between the two list indicators.
> 
> e.g.
> 
> - foo
> - bar
>   - baz |<-- Point
> 
> Calling the toggle-list-indicator function at the point will cause the 
> list indicator to change from a - to a + (and vice versa).

Nice idea!  Or even between - and *** at the current level.  Maybe
that should cycle.  Or maybe there are already existing keybindings
which distinguish between new - and *** entries?  M-RET doesn't always
DWIM, personally.

Re: FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Rick Moynihan]

Adam Spiers wrote:
>> This seems like a good idea.  Another related one occurred to me today 
>> (if it's necessary) which is toggling between the two list indicators.
>>
>> e.g.
>>
>> - foo
>> - bar
>>   - baz |<-- Point
>>
>> Calling the toggle-list-indicator function at the point will cause the 
>> list indicator to change from a - to a + (and vice versa).
> 
> Nice idea!  Or even between - and *** at the current level.  Maybe
> that should cycle.  Or maybe there are already existing keybindings
> which distinguish between new - and *** entries?  M-RET doesn't always
> DWIM, personally.

Yes!  This is another that issue that gets me, I often press M-RET 
expecting a list, but get an outline.  Having a keybinding to quickly 
toggle between these sorts of things when they occur *might* be nice.

R.

Re: FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 16, 2007, at 18:22, Adam Spiers wrote:

> Rick Moynihan (rick@calicojack.co.uk) wrote:
>> Adam Spiers wrote:
>>> Hi Carsten,
>>>
>>> Another simple idea - subject line is pretty much self-explanatory I
>>> think: would be great to be able to toggle timestamps between [] and
>>> <>.
>>>
>>> Why?  Say I have an event in my diary.org file, and am subsequently
>>> told my presence at the event is no longer necessary.  Consequently I
>>> would like to keep it in the file for reference, to track colleagues'
>>> movements or in case my presence is re-required, but I don't want the
>>> event to appear in the agenda.
>>>
>>> By the way, I probably could have coded this in the time it took to
>>> write the mail, but I thought that until I've sent a piece of paper 
>>> to
>>> the FSF assigning rights for code contributed to org-mode and emacs,
>>> it would be better to let Carsten write it.  Is that correct or 
>>> flawed
>>> thinking?
>>>
>>
>> This seems like a good idea.  Another related one occurred to me today
>> (if it's necessary) which is toggling between the two list indicators.
>>
>> e.g.
>>
>> - foo
>> - bar
>>   - baz |<-- Point

This cammand does exist, it is `C-c -'.

>>
>> Calling the toggle-list-indicator function at the point will cause the
>> list indicator to change from a - to a + (and vice versa).
>
> Nice idea!  Or even between - and *** at the current level.  Maybe
> that should cycle.  Or maybe there are already existing keybindings
> which distinguish between new - and *** entries?  M-RET doesn't always
> DWIM, personally.

When you are in a list, M-RET makes the next list item, C-u M-RET makes
the next section, and C-RET does the same - even if for different 
reasons.

In what sense does M-RET not DWYM?

- Carsten

Re: FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Rick Moynihan]

Carsten Dominik wrote:
> On Oct 16, 2007, at 18:22, Adam Spiers wrote:
> 
>> Rick Moynihan (rick@calicojack.co.uk) wrote:
>>> Adam Spiers wrote:
>>> This seems like a good idea.  Another related one occurred to me today
>>> (if it's necessary) which is toggling between the two list indicators.
>>>
>>> e.g.
>>>
>>> - foo
>>> - bar
>>>   - baz |<-- Point
> 
> This cammand does exist, it is `C-c -'.

Excellent.  I'd forgotten there were so many list types/styles though, 
it seems that this might be better on some kind of cycle (like the 
priority cookies).  I don't know what key binding you could use though. 
  Could holding CTRL and using the arrows up/down work?

> 
> When you are in a list, M-RET makes the next list item, C-u M-RET makes
> the next section, and C-RET does the same - even if for different 
> reasons.
> 
> In what sense does M-RET not DWYM?

Speaking for myself I think the issue is that M-RET is a common habit 
for creating a series of either list-items or outlines.  The problem 
arises when you are under an outline and press M-RET it creates a new 
outline, when you really wanted to start a list.  Hence having a 
convenient toggle here to turn an outline to a list/vice-versa might be 
handy.  Perhaps the C-c - binding (or perhaps a cyclical one) could be 
used to include the current outline level in the cycle.  This binding 
would then also obviously be applicable on outlines, allowing them to be 
converted from outline to list.

Do these ideas make sense?

R.

Re: FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 17, 2007, at 11:08, Rick Moynihan wrote:

> Carsten Dominik wrote:
>> On Oct 16, 2007, at 18:22, Adam Spiers wrote:
>>> Rick Moynihan (rick@calicojack.co.uk) wrote:
>>>> Adam Spiers wrote:
>>>> This seems like a good idea.  Another related one occurred to me 
>>>> today
>>>> (if it's necessary) which is toggling between the two list 
>>>> indicators.
>>>>
>>>> e.g.
>>>>
>>>> - foo
>>>> - bar
>>>>   - baz |<-- Point
>> This cammand does exist, it is `C-c -'.
>
> Excellent.  I'd forgotten there were so many list types/styles though, 
> it seems that this might be better on some kind of cycle (like the 
> priority cookies).  I don't know what key binding you could use 
> though.  Could holding CTRL and using the arrows up/down work?

I guess S-left/right would be quite natural for this.  OK.

>
>> When you are in a list, M-RET makes the next list item, C-u M-RET 
>> makes
>> the next section, and C-RET does the same - even if for different 
>> reasons.
>> In what sense does M-RET not DWYM?
>
> Speaking for myself I think the issue is that M-RET is a common habit 
> for creating a series of either list-items or outlines.  The problem 
> arises when you are under an outline and press M-RET it creates a new 
> outline, when you really wanted to start a list.  Hence having a 
> convenient toggle here to turn an outline to a list/vice-versa might 
> be handy.  Perhaps the C-c - binding (or perhaps a cyclical one) could 
> be used to include the current outline level in the cycle.  This 
> binding would then also obviously be applicable on outlines, allowing 
> them to be converted from outline to list.

I like `C-c -' to convert from a heading to a list item.  Very nice. 
Thanks.
I don't really think we need the other way round though, you can use
C-u M-RET or C-RET to directly get a heading from within a list.

- Carsten

Re: FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Bastien]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

>> Excellent.  I'd forgotten there were so many list types/styles though,
>> it seems that this might be better on some kind of cycle (like the
>> priority cookies).  I don't know what key binding you could use
>> though.  Could holding CTRL and using the arrows up/down work?
>
> I guess S-left/right would be quite natural for this.  OK.

Just one concern : if Org someday implements promoting/demoting of list
items and sublists, I think we'd like to have these keybindings:

- S-left/right   :  demote/promote a list item
- S-M-left/right :  demote/promote a whole sublist

Therefore the keys we have for editing the headlines structure will
behave quite the same for the lists structure.  

I believe editing the list structure would be more frequently used than
switching from one list type to another. Just a thought, though.

-- 
Bastien

Re: FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Bastien]

Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:

> Just one concern : if Org someday implements promoting/demoting of list
> items and sublists, I think we'd like to have these keybindings:
>
> - S-left/right   :  demote/promote a list item
> - S-M-left/right :  demote/promote a whole sublist

Of course, I was completely wrong: M-left/right does already the job of
promoting/demoting list items and S-left/right is free.

Sorry for the noise.

-- 
Bastien

Re: FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi Adam,

On Oct 16, 2007, at 16:19, Adam Spiers wrote:

> Hi Carsten,
>
> Another simple idea - subject line is pretty much self-explanatory I
> think: would be great to be able to toggle timestamps between [] and
> <>.
>
> Why?  Say I have an event in my diary.org file, and am subsequently
> told my presence at the event is no longer necessary.  Consequently I
> would like to keep it in the file for reference, to track colleagues'
> movements or in case my presence is re-required, but I don't want the
> event to appear in the agenda.

Writing the command is simple - finding a keybinding is harder.
I will make so that using S-up or S-down on one of the brackets
will switch the type.  If you have a good proposal for another
key, come forward.

> By the way, I probably could have coded this in the time it took to
> write the mail, but I thought that until I've sent a piece of paper to
> the FSF assigning rights for code contributed to org-mode and emacs,
> it would be better to let Carsten write it.  Is that correct or flawed
> thinking?

Well, I cannot officially take your code, but if you show me an 
"example"
implementation, it will probably be faster still.

- Carsten

Re: FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Adam Spiers]

On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 06:13:41PM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote:
> On Oct 16, 2007, at 16:19, Adam Spiers wrote:
> > Another simple idea - subject line is pretty much self-explanatory I
> > think: would be great to be able to toggle timestamps between [] and
> > <>.
> >
> > Why?  Say I have an event in my diary.org file, and am subsequently
> > told my presence at the event is no longer necessary.  Consequently I
> > would like to keep it in the file for reference, to track colleagues'
> > movements or in case my presence is re-required, but I don't want the
> > event to appear in the agenda.
> 
> Writing the command is simple - finding a keybinding is harder.
> I will make so that using S-up or S-down on one of the brackets
> will switch the type.  If you have a good proposal for another
> key, come forward.

How about making it so that C-c ! over an active timestamp will
deactivate it, and C-c . over an inactive one will activate it?

> > By the way, I probably could have coded this in the time it took to
> > write the mail, but I thought that until I've sent a piece of paper to
> > the FSF assigning rights for code contributed to org-mode and emacs,
> > it would be better to let Carsten write it.  Is that correct or flawed
> > thinking?
> 
> Well, I cannot officially take your code, but if you show me an
> "example" implementation, it will probably be faster still.

Now that I am beginning to get really serious about implementing the
review component of GTD, new ideas for org-mode tweaks are continually
popping into my head; apologies for spamming the list recently as a
result :-)  Several of the tweaks would require >15 LoC to implement,
so I am thinking it might be worth sorting out copyright assignment.
How should I go about this - would the following be sufficient?

http://mirrors.wikifusion.info/gnu/elisp-archive/FSF-Copyright-Assignment

Re: FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 17, 2007, at 19:18, Adam Spiers wrote:
> Now that I am beginning to get really serious about implementing the
> review component of GTD, new ideas for org-mode tweaks are continually
> popping into my head; apologies for spamming the list recently as a
> result :-)  Several of the tweaks would require >15 LoC to implement,
> so I am thinking it might be worth sorting out copyright assignment.
> How should I go about this - would the following be sufficient?


Please use the attached form, and let me know when the process is
finished, best by sending me a scan of the final assignment (also
signed by the FSF).

Thanks for doing this!!!!

- Carsten

Re: FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Adam Spiers]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 07:36:17AM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote:
> On Oct 17, 2007, at 19:18, Adam Spiers wrote:
> >Now that I am beginning to get really serious about implementing the
> >review component of GTD, new ideas for org-mode tweaks are continually
> >popping into my head; apologies for spamming the list recently as a
> >result :-)  Several of the tweaks would require >15 LoC to implement,
> >so I am thinking it might be worth sorting out copyright assignment.
> >How should I go about this - would the following be sufficient?
> 
> Please use the attached form, and let me know when the process is
> finished, best by sending me a scan of the final assignment (also
> signed by the FSF).

My sixth sense is giving me a hunch that there was an attachment
missing from that mail ;-)

Re: FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Christian Egli]

Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> writes:

> By the way, I probably could have coded this in the time it took to
> write the mail, but I thought that until I've sent a piece of paper to
> the FSF assigning rights for code contributed to org-mode and emacs,
> it would be better to let Carsten write it.  Is that correct or flawed
> thinking?

As far as I know you do not need an assignement, i.e. all the
paperwork for only a small patch. What constitutes a "small patch" I
don't know. Might be answered in one of the GNU FAQs.

HTH
Christian

Re: Re: FR: toggling timestamps active/inactive

[Bastien]

Christian Egli <christian.egli@novell.com> writes:

> What constitutes a "small patch" I don't know. Might be answered in
> one of the GNU FAQs.

From memory: beyond 15 lines, the patch is not small anymore.

-- 
Bastien