From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim X Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: basic question: going back to dired Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 12:17:44 +1000 Organization: Rapt Technologies Message-ID: <87hcadqth3.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> References: <4884DC7F.6060406@gmail.com> <819feff4-76e3-4bf8-9ece-7b47f099efc2@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <87mykaw8sb.fsf@nonospaz.fatphil.org> <87myk828zm.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> <87y73rzd9b.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217040170 22168 80.91.229.12 (26 Jul 2008 02:42:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:42:50 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 26 04:43:39 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KMZkw-0001f1-IE for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:43:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58373 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMZk2-0000lv-Pz for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:42:42 -0400 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!news.astraweb.com!border2.newsrouter.astraweb.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:b0slU5tJAMGNdQUcdIJFoQkX5+c= Original-Lines: 64 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 87c5e403.news.astraweb.com Original-X-Trace: DXC=>SjKkEDlJo@jEc; hW[JGKHL?0kYOcDh@JIGb]mONgOiJ9_G0=\R`VdLRTFYYW29Y\JP^DG3<@a=:K Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:160599 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:55946 Archived-At: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: > Tim X wrote: >> Bastien writes: >>> Those who say "Hey! The learning curve is too high." are those >>> who don't really want/need Emacs. >> >> Exactly. Well said. > > > I thought Bastien was joking there. Maybe I was misunderstanding, but when > people complains about the learning curve I believe they are mostly saying > > "Hey! The learning curve in Emacs is to high. It did > not take that long at all to learn to do the same thing > in the other programs I tried." > I don't agree. My experience with people learning emacs isn't that the learning curve is too steep for the things they do with other programs, but rather that the learning curve is steep because there is so much more functionality to learn. The basics of emacs don't really differ that much from any other editor. For the record, I was agreeing with his point about concentrating on extending functionality rather than worrying about terminology so much. It is the functionality that will bring people to emacs, not modern terminology. If the functionality they want is there, they will accept the terminology even if they feel it could have been defined better. No matter how good the terminology is, nobody will be interested if it doesn't have the functionality. Note that I'm not saying any functionality. If the way you use/access the functionality is too difficult to use, its poorly implemented functionality and won't help. However, if using the functionality is straight-forward, even if the terms seem alien at first, people will adapt. I still don't see the terminology as being as bad as many claim. The term buffer is no harder to understand for someone who has never come across it before than the term workspace for someone who has not come across that before. Using frame and window, while possibly slightly different to what someone may be use to, is not a difficult concept to understand. Key binding is quite straight-forward. The only one which I think will really seem alien is the use of the term 'face'. However, I can't think of an adequate replacement - some would argue font, but really that is just part of what a face represents. Once you understand all the aspects of what a face represents, font seems like a very poor description. I think the real source of issues regarding terminology is actually more a reflection of laziness. People don't want to read the manual and they want it all to be self evident. However, when you have something as powerful as emacs, it becomes almost impossible to make verything self evident and what can be considered self-evident changes over time. I don't believe anyone who has done the tutorial and read the intriductory parts of the emacs manual will have any problems with the terminology. If they can't be bothered reading the manual or doing the tutorial, then I have little sympothy with the problems they have learning the terminology. Tim -- tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au