From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: AW: Fwd: CEDET sync Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:06:14 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87hboyhfnt.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <86bpf7q3fc.wl%lluis@ginnungagap.pc.ac.upc.edu> <87wrxvyijr.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4B8C42E2.3080308@siege-engine.com> <7697A57B1AD9104F993CDF6A5B69430C09227D1F24@CORPMAIL08.corp.capgemini.com> <878wabxg0x.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87mxyrhxq8.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87635eycga.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1267546093 13645 80.91.229.12 (2 Mar 2010 16:08:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 16:08:13 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 02 17:08:06 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NmUde-0002wd-Ff for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:08:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45190 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NmUdd-00083z-Qy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:08:01 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NmUci-0007dZ-5y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:07:04 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=34084 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NmUch-0007cu-7H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:07:03 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NmUcf-0001Fe-Mb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:07:03 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:34890) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NmUcf-0001FY-BV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:07:01 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NmUcP-0001jv-Jk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:06:45 +0100 Original-Received: from p5b2c2774.dip.t-dialin.net ([91.44.39.116]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:06:45 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by p5b2c2774.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:06:45 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 47 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p5b2c2774.dip.t-dialin.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.92 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:XCGyJTRAZFkWooJCopY/A6My3Sc= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:121550 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > David Kastrup writes: > > > Worms may wriggle, too. The question is whether there is a central > > agency moving forward. > > Of course *we* have a central agency moving forward. It's called > "Emacs", and it has bright red taillights we can follow through the > fog. > > It's *you* guys who have to *worry* about being a pack of wriggling > worms, not us.[1] Worse, your development is constrained by political > considerations that have saddled you with a 1990s bug tracker and a > VCS that gives 1980s performance while satisfying the requirement to > support 1970s workflows. Not to mention massive internal obstacles to > benefitting from work done by anybody who doesn't actively pledge > allegiance to Emacs. :-( A copyright assignment is not written out to Emacs, and it is not a pledge of allegiance, most certainly not to Emacs. A main consideration for GNU software is not to leave GNU software behind for short-term benefits. It may at times be a nuisance for GNU subprojects, but it certainly has helped in completing the GNU software landscape from isolated programs to completely free systems. If the FSF's sole goal were to make Emacs the best editor to be found, some decisions in its development might have been made differently. You might call them "political considerations", but it is not like they are anything new. The GNU project has been shaped and motivated by political decisions for the sake of creating a workground compatible with a certain set of morals and views. People with quite different focus and goals still profit: that is a consequence of the goals. But their profit is a side-effect that may simplify work and things, but which is not ultimately what keeps the system as such going any better than less free alternatives. I am quite annoyed by some decisions and their effects at times. Sure. But I am not so stupid not to see what long-term effects they have made possible in the past ultimately. -- David Kastrup