From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thierry Volpiatto Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: C-x C-x (was: C-d deleting region considered harmful) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:25:48 +0200 Organization: ThierryVolpiatto Message-ID: <87hbhja77n.fsf@tux.homenetwork> References: <87eicrx1ls.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4C94E03D.8090002@gmail.com> <87fwx699pc.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <83tylmyclx.fsf@gnu.org> <4C961787.3090907@gmail.com> <878w2xsigj.fsf@gmail.com> <87zkvd5hwa.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1285054124 2476 80.91.229.12 (21 Sep 2010 07:28:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 07:28:44 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 21 09:28:43 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxxH0-0002Gb-8W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:28:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33601 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OxxGu-0003C8-Sw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 03:28:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=47885 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OxxGi-0003Bs-Ih for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 03:28:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxxGd-0001j3-5U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 03:28:00 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:42784) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxxGc-0001io-Ri for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 03:27:55 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxxGZ-00026n-GZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:27:51 +0200 Original-Received: from 52.78.88-79.rev.gaoland.net ([79.88.78.52]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:27:51 +0200 Original-Received: from thierry.volpiatto by 52.78.88-79.rev.gaoland.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:27:51 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 48 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 52.78.88-79.rev.gaoland.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:n2ip6HN9AJWllOkUObSrx9oHrfM= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:130561 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > So, I think we agree that we should change the active-region deletion so > it only happens for `delete' and not for C-d. > Good. We're just waiting for someone to cobble up > a corresponding patch. Even if i like C-d to delete region i think it's better to not activate it as it is easy to enable that if one need it.(the contrary is not) But i wonder why, when you enable such a thing you don't create a variable that allow one to enable or not this feature. > Now for the spinoff thread that keeps spinning off other ones: I'd be > willing to decouple C-x C-x from "(re)activate the region", but then we > need to find some other way to reactivate the region. > Suggestions welcome. Of course there's C-u C-x C-x, but I don't find it > very appealing (just like C-u C-x C-x doesn't sound too appealing to > people who currently want to exchange-mark-and-point without activating > the region). It seem there is two use of C-x C-x: 1) Exchanging point and mark allow one to modify beginning or end of region, preferably with transient-mark-mode enabled. e.g i want to keep first five lines and 3 last lines of buffer: C-x h C-n(* 5) C-x C-x C-p(* 2) 2) Without transient-m-m enabled it allow to navigate in a buffer from one point to another what is not very useful unless you are working in only two differents positions in buffer. So why these users are not using C-u C- with set-mark-command-repeat-pop enabled? I personnaly prefer using a mark-ring browser to know exactly where i move. So it seem all the tools are here in emacs (except mark browser) so why do you always want to oblige people using this or that feature? Maybe add user variable to enable this or that but keep emacs flexibility, that allow one to do exactly what he wants with emacs. Arguing 'this is better for Newby' remove this flexibility and will reduce Emacs power to the level of other 'popular' softwares that is very low. -- A+ Thierry Get my Gnupg key: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997