From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9571: 24.0.50; user option to turn off bidi, please Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 12:39:19 +0200 Message-ID: <87hb43fsq0.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87obybg01n.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1316774748 15142 80.91.229.12 (23 Sep 2011 10:45:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:45:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 9571@debbugs.gnu.org To: Juanma Barranquero Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 23 12:45:42 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R73GI-00057R-7L for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 12:45:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43273 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R73GH-0001LT-DU for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 06:45:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:36224) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R73GE-0001LO-Vv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 06:45:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R73GD-0008JP-Lq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 06:45:38 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:40568) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R73GD-0008JF-Ij for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 06:45:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R73Gc-0008EI-8K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 06:46:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 9571 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 9571-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B9571.131677471031569 (code B ref 9571); Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:46:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 9571) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Sep 2011 10:45:10 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R73Fl-0008D8-Hz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 06:45:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-fx0-f44.google.com ([209.85.161.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R73Fd-0008CP-7V for 9571@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 06:45:03 -0400 Original-Received: by fxd18 with SMTP id 18so3425470fxd.3 for <9571@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 03:44:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=bXx0B4s6rcT/0Xa6bT4ojVUdFQJwAWa0zOv5UJJvLYY=; b=KFbr1zYT+NnnCBipp0MxJMp9jGJ/DRjveSaV4+DyIm1zut3ynvTYRLqnWBADUz6rbB LRPXReV0vFVXcua8jze3v8TCsrupo7T395yAZy6vYWljiBjODrC3moqnJn7jrcp/pLOx zohFK92Ib2n9xIqkZq1m/vkgw9AQgg8G49n8I= Original-Received: by 10.223.30.71 with SMTP id t7mr4820038fac.128.1316774674718; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 03:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (176.119.broadband10.iol.cz. [90.177.119.176]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w6sm10676145fah.0.2011.09.23.03.44.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 23 Sep 2011 03:44:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Juanma Barranquero's message of "Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:21:02 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 06:46:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:51698 Archived-At: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:21:02 +0200 Juanma Barranquero wrote: > OOH, there was a time when suggesting that the user adds something to > .emacs, like > > (setq-default bidi-display-reordering nil) > > was not considered obscure. Not everything must go through the > customization interface. It's certainly good enough to me, but you won't find that advice in the current documentation either, AFAICT. > OTOH, you could equally argue that the new font backend stuff from the > Unicode merge slows Emacs for people who only ever edits ASCII, and > that disabling these backends should be an "easily disoverable and > advertised posibility". But currently the only way to disable a > specific font backend is via (initial|default)-frame-alist, and no one > has complained yet. Sure. If someone complained, it would probably idicate there was an issue to be solved? As it happens, Drew did complain. Also, this is not (only) about making `bidi-display-reordering' a custom variable. It is about releasing Emacs 24 with still-not-widely-tested bidi support, which quite possibly adds zero value for most users[1], but does add significant problems at least in some (possibly as yet unknown) circumstances. It might be a good idea, but I don't see why you shouldn't be sincere about it and document the implications and safeguard measures properly. IMO just saying something to the effect of "bidi support can bring various problems and can be disabled by doing AB, but we hope you don't disable it and instead help us improve it by reporting any problems you encounter" might have better effect than everybody switching off bidi for good after encountering the first problem and then finding "Emacs 24 bidi slows things down, just turn it off with AB" on the Internet.=20=20=20 [1] Just in case: that of course doesn't mean it's not great or necessary to have it. --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n