From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Marcin Borkowski Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: update intro to Emacs Lisp programming Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 17:06:30 +0200 Message-ID: <87h8mybedl.fsf@mbork.pl> References: <83zi16ofny.fsf@gnu.org> <6A8BB190-FA64-4697-AFDA-EFBEB4886230@scratch.space> <90addb33-6797-b203-4a67-a2a6c201bd81@cs.ucla.edu> <97CEED22-57CE-4715-9239-1557F38AD994@gmail.com> <376AD40E-4EEC-4DC6-ADDA-4E594EAFE1DE@gmail.com> <87bmddvvj8.fsf@mbork.pl> <87in7juhc6.fsf@mbork.pl> <5C62F3FC-7B77-43E5-A907-4060DA0E0219@gmail.com> <6FC095B3-5F73-4E17-B2EB-BE9F98E2009E@gmail.com> <87fu2jh8ds.fsf@mbork.pl> <878t8bgclv.fsf@mbork.pl> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1527088851 27778 195.159.176.226 (23 May 2018 15:20:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 15:20:51 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: mu4e 1.1.0; emacs 27.0.50 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, brandelune@gmail.com To: John Wiegley Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 23 17:20:46 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLVZF-00076r-Ho for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 May 2018 17:20:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34074 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLVbM-0006AJ-NL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 May 2018 11:22:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55647) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLVMi-0004kO-AG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 May 2018 11:07:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLVMd-0002j5-Uq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 May 2018 11:07:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([195.110.48.8]:56584) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLVMd-0002in-I8; Wed, 23 May 2018 11:07:43 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 284DEE563AB; Wed, 23 May 2018 17:07:42 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.mojserwer.eu Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mojserwer.eu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MyY2mqN4D6jX; Wed, 23 May 2018 17:07:34 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (188.47.9.2.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl [188.47.9.2]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B0A2CE6D91; Wed, 23 May 2018 17:07:34 +0200 (CEST) In-reply-to: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 195.110.48.8 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:225607 Archived-At: On 2018-05-23, at 16:38, John Wiegley wrote: >>>>>> "MB" == Marcin Borkowski writes: > >>> > BTW, I once had an idea to write a "next step" book on Emacs Lisp, one > >>> that could be read after the Intro. >>> >>> How about adding that mew material as the start of the Emacs Lisp Reference >>> Manual? > > MB> There are several reasons I don't think this is a good idea. > > I have a reason why I disagree with this comment. > > ;) Understood. ;-) So, here are my reasons, in no particular order. - style: The Lisp Reference is more in formal/impersonal style, Eintro is much more casual. So is my writing. (You can visit my blog at mbork.pl to see a sample.) It won't fit to the Reference. - ambition: I'd like to have "my" book on Elisp. It's not only about vanity, though - I would like to author more books on various stuff in the future, and I'd like this to be part of my track record. (Note: it is not going to be my first book, I coauthored a well-received textbook on LaTeX (in Polish) and wrote a textbook about certain part of mathematics (https://zbmath.org/?q=an:1362.54001), and I'm in the process of writing yet another one.) - money: I'd like to get some funding for the book. (I thought about crowdfunding it.) I don't want to become a millionaire thanks to it, but it will require considerable time from me, and I am now the sole financial supporter of my family, so I have to be quite careful wrt where I put my time in. (In an ideal world, I'd like to have, say $8000 to cover all expenses of copyediting, proof-reading, printing etc. and my time; in the real world, I think $2000 is a reasonable minimum, which would mean this to be, say, a half-charity project.) (Note: I am aware that this technically might not exclude rms' idea.) - policy: While I do appreciate some of rms' and FSF's ideals, I don't feel like I can identify with FSF's goals/policies to the extent of authoring a big thing with them (as opposed to minor things like bug fixes and small Emacs features). - license: I explicitly do *not* want to release it under GFDL. One possibility would be to have a small print-run of physical copies (say, a few hundred at most) and a digital version (pdf and maybe epub etc.) which would be sold, but also freely available (e.g. after some short time, like a few months). While nothing is set in stone (although I'd really want to have at least some physical copies), I consider GFDL a very bad idea in case of (at least partially) creative writing (as opposed to purely technical writing, like a reference guide). I thought about e.g. CC-BY-ND, which explicitly forbids distributing modified copies. Does that make more sense? -- Marcin Borkowski http://mbork.pl