From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sergey Organov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs project mission (was Re: "If you're still seeing problems, please reopen." [ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 09:52:45 +0300 Message-ID: <87h82s8n2a.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> References: <20191117113054.49837.qmail@mail.muc.de> <87pnhq7mxg.fsf@gnus.org> <87bltaz9g4.fsf@telefonica.net> <834kz25qp9.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2wexsv1.fsf@telefonica.net> <20191118175639.08d02820@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <874kz0pa9y.fsf@gnus.org> <87sgmjyn60.fsf@gmx.de> <87imnezyt5.fsf@gmx.de> <481a1f16-d661-0f96-2f45-3d5ec9c1132e@yandex.ru> <871ru0t7p8.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="256312"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 25 07:53:30 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iZ8FV-0014SH-Nx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:53:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40706 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iZ8FO-0007y0-QK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 01:53:22 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40954) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iZ8Es-0007xi-Rn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 01:52:52 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iZ8Er-0005b2-AP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 01:52:50 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.javad.com ([54.86.164.124]:55423) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iZ8Er-0005at-4B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 01:52:49 -0500 Original-Received: from osv (unknown [89.175.180.246]) by mail.javad.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 66C093E9CD for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 06:52:47 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.javad.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=javad.com header.i=@javad.com header.b=SVjEdlTP; dkim-atps=neutral DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=javad.com; s=default; t=1574664768; bh=6PV6JVFCuCzyxgueIBvejUhYnWnPiboYoea1hfu8j2k=; l=3937; h=Received:From:To:Subject; b=SVjEdlTPRPcgHPohnpTyM6P5vrSuIyVhuBE9/DwcZFT7kL0wVl1KZ70CeHnz3i272 +7ObI/Gz9qVdrF8PUh3CnswyGuyJZdOmReks8k2ULM99PCPkKeiMg4CYZ8Iu5y51iG hdqoFVa7G3MnlBtvE+mquus3U5JxmJqzC4KP0v5Q= Authentication-Results: ip-172-31-2-110; spf=pass (sender IP is 89.175.180.246) smtp.mailfrom=osv@javad.com smtp.helo=osv Received-SPF: pass (ip-172-31-2-110: connection is authenticated) Original-Received: from osv by osv with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iZ8En-00026i-Ql for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 09:52:45 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 23 Nov 2019 08:14:11 -0500") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 54.86.164.124 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:242702 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > I also understand that Emacs could use a system facility for sendin= g > > email if there was one; but I know I haven=E2=80=99t configured an = MTA > > locally, don=E2=80=99t want to, and ain=E2=80=99t going to. So I as= sume Emacs is not > > going to be able to delegate sending the email to any other program= . [...] > If it is a real problem, the only way to make this better > is to make a better way to transmit the bug report. > What could that be? Dedicated Emacs bug reporting WWW page (wizard) where one is instructed to copy-paste result of M-x report-emacs-bug, or click "Send" to send a local file got from imaginary M-x save-bug-report, the resulting actual report being CC'd back to the author (maybe as an option). It could have other options as well, e.g. "Mail" button, to get back to user preferred mail client. I find reporting bugs to be indeed somewhat complicated, and maybe even more complicated when one does use Emacs for mail. Here is my recent use-case. I do use Emacs (GNUS) for all the mail and news handling, so I do have nice working mail configuration for Emacs. Nevertheless, to actually file a bug report I recently needed to: 1. In my usual Emacs session I encountered a (non-critical) bug. I still worked for a while on unrelated things, and then decided to report the bug. How? Googled for "emacs report bug" (in Firefox). Found report-emacs-bug. Nice! (Could have used M-x apropos-command, but googling is rather the first thing that comes to mind nowadays). 2. M-x report-emacs-bug. Entered subject at "Bug subject:" prompt, and then mail buffer with correct credentials appeared, and there it asks to reproduce the problem from "emacs -Q". Besides, after careful inspection, 2 pages down the 5 pages of automatically generated content, the report had suspect "Recent input:" section that contained irrelevant recent input[1]. 3. Decided to start "emacs -Q", but first decided to exit current emacs instance to avoid interference with fresh session, just in case. Exited emacs. 4. Started "emacs -Q", reproduced the problem, and thought that probably I actually need to report-emacs-bug from here, to have more relevant information, including "Recent input:" section. 5. M-x report-emacs-bug again, now in this "emacs -Q" instance, entered the same "Bug subject:" again, and got another somewhat similar mail buffer. Entered problem description (having slight inconveniences from lacking some of my custom key-bindings), and finally ready to send... 6. Then I guessed "emacs -Q" may be misconfigured for mail sending, as I never aimed to achieve such a goal. In addition I figured I'd rather like the report to be sent from my usual GNUS configuration, for the message to be logged in my local group(s) suitable for it. So I didn't try to send the report from here. 7. Yet again I wanted to exit this instance to run my usual Emacs session, so I saved report content to a file and exited Emacs. 8. Started fresh Emacs as I usually do, M-x gnus, M-x report-emacs-bug the third time, entered fake subject. Replaced bug report body and subject with that from the file saved in (7), and now I'm ready to send. 9. Hit C-c C-c to finally send the report. Now suppose that at (1) I've had directed to Emacs bug reporting page that said: run "emacs -Q", reproduce the problem, run M-x emacs-report-bug, and then copy-paste the resulting buffer contents here. How much more simple it could have been! [1] I think that either "Recent input:" shouldn't be included, or a warning to check the report for possible sensitive information should be put at the beginning. -- Sergey