From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What is the most useful potential feature which Emacs lacks? Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 20:24:39 -0500 Message-ID: <87h7vzedns.fsf@red-bean.com> References: <87k11htj96.fsf@dustycloud.org> <87pnb7u70r.fsf@red-bean.com> <87y2pvrzho.fsf@dustycloud.org> <87y2pvqhuj.fsf@red-bean.com> <87pnaog13i.fsf@red-bean.com> <87h7w0f03x.fsf@red-bean.com> <5bae1fd5-52ef-46f1-c728-8d5940bf5bbc@yandex.ru> <20200528205249.GC919@breton.holly.idiocy.org> Reply-To: Karl Fogel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="99281"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Alan Third , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org, cwebber@dustycloud.org, Dmitry Gutov , ndame@protonmail.com To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri May 29 03:25:29 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jeTm5-000PjZ-5D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 29 May 2020 03:25:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57152 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jeTm4-0004Av-49 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 28 May 2020 21:25:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33418) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jeTlR-0003kI-Pj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 May 2020 21:24:50 -0400 Original-Received: from newsp.red-bean.com ([45.79.25.59]:41298) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jeTlQ-0007jN-3P; Thu, 28 May 2020 21:24:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=red-bean.com; s=202005newsp; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:Reply-To:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=7fdQjrsQn6OKuCEomIrCfiVpq3gYw2Cnwht3lnLw/ys=; t=1590715485; x=1591925085; b=bG/wi6HQ2bhHRRuAu06CKEZsAcpsu4fxJnW2STE8hvUNq1s98tFgnj3SXHoSkSW6IXNa96va6n E0/eUR0xL7gDhHL1peqT8SstAf8+NFpvh0SzwHxN8C1HOaU8Ywpta0v6tqgbw2oLTnekOWpgYgCHs 0NFkzT/TutXPGu1G7oHeGS9rTW1dqYwW2+kBPc0Ilr0njgMgVGy/tTPge8UTVsCw5lIZLDcYsJviK xYFZKikVOoF6Um4mRR/oynLQw00hwo+CQPGbCyqy1FvtGC4/htBTlfbvnkfATSc3diY6IKiN79gPk OeELr36NQ9bzDeHA0vzU8oEYC9g8b2EaXV4YQ==; Original-Received: from 99-112-125-163.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net ([99.112.125.163]:40552 helo=floss) by newsp.red-bean.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jeTlI-0008L4-Ma; Fri, 29 May 2020 01:24:40 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 28 May 2020 17:02:33 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=45.79.25.59; envelope-from=kfogel@red-bean.com; helo=newsp.red-bean.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/28 21:12:59 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251594 Archived-At: On 28 May 2020, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> This seems like a reasonable solution to me. Alternatively perhaps we >> just need to sell C-x C-f as "open a file or directory" rather than >> "find a file"? > >A directory *is* a file. Not in a sense that's meaningful to most non-programmers. Even many programmers don't naturally conceptualize directories as files -- especially those who have learned programming in the WWW era, since they haven't had to do much programming in which file<->directory unity matters. If explanations of Emacs features start to depend on people having filesystem programming experience, that will narrow Emacs' audience quite a bit more than necessary :-). Best regards, -Karl