From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master 859190f 2/3: Convert some keymaps to defvar-keymap Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 22:22:52 +0200 Message-ID: <87h7dm9en7.fsf@gnus.org> References: <20211004081724.6281.11798@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20211004081727.4F24921048@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <871r4qcs8s.fsf@gnus.org> <87o87ubcnl.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33201"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 12 22:23:47 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1maOJO-0008Pt-M2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 22:23:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60624 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1maOJM-0002nR-TM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 16:23:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36700) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1maOIg-00026j-Ew for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 16:23:02 -0400 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2]:60266) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1maOIe-0003F7-TQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 16:23:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=yS/IZIA6wRUvDVEDAWGbml4L6bshAOC9S09TmtLD8MA=; b=RtalE52bYhQyJLQClAaxeOH4rG tMsVuy1AsRGmudbsfktYzomQcdpbddMfmGGT8PCSBRILwqjPyq7wquzVQRkZ+7O3O/aLGdJTH080T HAb8HNneCfZ8Cy95X6bcTcf72JwJs9cfSO6aLTXnsHYFgrnM8zVxfOQNoB/ynncC7cZQ=; Original-Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1maOIa-0000ow-8J; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 22:22:58 +0200 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAGFBMVEVVVVd4e4OnmXIv LzS+spDGrnbPU0H///+tZQFSAAAAAWJLR0QHFmGI6wAAAAd0SU1FB+UKDBQIFEMX0lEAAAG6SURB VDjLfZRLcsMgDIbBpF0DfayDandNrR4gzdgXYMIVcv8jVBIvp4vKMzbo4xcIhJVW2rpiun69c+of M4jRKEQFG9lVITuR+uTn9zRvxc5GxhOP9Dax+bf93GIRIP+eG0kDIE45N5BzkyBNvxxBqnFoBet+ BE1C4C0/gNQUkSPlW1kU+ZOtignScgRwrooJoMfiBoSiiDCACBhIdlDIrQDq0OYaFc3KgCZJVs9J BLqACYqE93kBEVgK1cDygZxqguC15BGND0JQjBp3MkHesf+MvBCc3PtdjEDw4AE+ytFF+/wAAphY DlodAT/YwL0DS5MEVwAOYJQFF5xrCn0AnquMxuoLAT9AkOrjySMBaACVk0QERNrRDiJn0fNYj0As 1MwHQF828YW3Kib47KDubmLwlLe/gMrJSEX25eJaj7ac+T5AHEf+CBCWUYnHUHhaeiFyTUOwfKNM rekK9ny7bRdEI3dwGzW98ZBWu3jaC7jCTBK6oQ2sG0cyPITBZVxouZrcfm2NSr64/6Od5u8ldhLN iRxWi+JqhiLKPec5vilQOfzyF6B9mRmoufqVGSr5afyoMUFHSh+7v3YExEAYJUQAAAAAJXRFWHRk YXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTEwLTEyVDIwOjA4OjE5KzAwOjAw1V4WQAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2Rp ZnkAMjAyMS0xMC0xMlQyMDowODoxOSswMDowMKQDrvwAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Kanye West's _Yeezus_: "Bound 2" In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Tue, 12 Oct 2021 07:24:45 -0700") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276834 Archived-At: Stefan Kangas writes: > Aha. Now I understand the argument. But surely that's pretty minor, > given that we can just document this difference? People might > appreciate the easier to read syntax many times more than they will > struggle with this minor additional complexity. Well, we have a bunch of different key syntaxes, and two of them are strings and therefore aren't marked as syntactically different. > It seems somewhat unfortunate to me that we are effectively doubling > down on the mistakes of the past. I'd rather take one step forward now, > in the hope that we can do something about "define-key" later. I don't think that's a forlorn hope. We'd have to introduce a new function. > I suggest that we would do better, and perhaps partially pre-empt such a > development, by taking a pro-active stance with a new construct like > `define-keymap'. In the current Emacs tree, we have >7K instances of define-key with a string as a parameter, and 441 with (kbd ...). If `kbd' had made greater headway in the... decades since it was added, then it would have been a more obvious choice to go for the kbd syntax in define-keymap, but it hasn't -- it's not obvious that "C-c C-c" is a better syntax than "\C-c\C-c" from the usage stats. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no