From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Netiquette is way to go Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 15:17:36 +0800 Message-ID: <87h74pc9rj.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <83h74rxze0.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkuzxvur.fsf@gnu.org> <878rq2gyoc.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29477"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: Jean Louis , Eli Zaretskii , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: goncholden Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 13 09:18:56 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o0eLg-0007TS-A0 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 09:18:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55468 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0eLe-0003vc-Uc for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 03:18:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50464) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0eKb-0003vJ-8v for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 03:17:50 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic316-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.187.148]:41596) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0eKY-0006MN-Dz for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 03:17:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1655104664; bh=tQQDZFbAXeRlbjuV7UdZ0Hw7cRdJrsJ9WUksYUZS2B0=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=Vnta2OQ+nQaK9hDEwEpQFDbuj9oFwfHSsBNcPV0UjpWpL2YK8sav7JXoXzpUPVVP9Ikh1lFpj4+MCV/M3uLyVexqCPGlA3BiCFxjdw2bYP6YLQNzwpm1l8z4LMwInPBsHVvoG/zP6duwth7HQBnJZ4/nSSIDPs99pJvySdx+JP3/PIuyHU/nWpbTx2sXPh+fMig5ivM/TCE5sJYsbK55X0gTkLgC3G5/rgJwAWuYF7tIXIhaCvNbFXrHj5tJhh2MrK7MaN7Bde3qiVi5HvzW+Uzmj3BNj657NkggVDa2N3+9PDGH7Y/pYiGnccByucv1udfA7sIKMTggtruWXZn98Q== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1655104664; bh=fpD5bQ0PPxhXLNUEDLyA77d2UZsqbb+8as+zc3fB+sH=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=Ll4hU6FfNI7m79D8jJ7BqFmKmQEJreq06ky9RoOY0Gm8wtBluW8BhjPrHwIVpEe3NB4ZTziB0hgGW4wky39sfa3fQ90eZe//unsV1nEHm7CSt2SrOtmEdhzVraHFsY29a8rvqqz4lSn2w0UxQ5nnjSQN15v9Nex9t3tPbYHRwr6isb7CSvATq2yeB6YPbTdYR1tNioGT7IXxEb88wSV/l8JyNFeKM5jhhAGPeQAjmxOLVtLqVM/7nPkgnMVS+FkViW/ghEMcI7q0nNBwnU3wknMFJtszJ5aZXXk9PiWot7WKCeUvmKJoJN3gHcRE0YORziS7TrOn0iNn18c1zDLQaA== X-YMail-OSG: yZSIOogVM1lg2H1BuIVzUVWTOvU4Bs.rYcF88oMMkTC_.3WrSbDwB.6ROGPeH27 RnQOA1.NO1SH1snjQF_lMEik78fNc22C_JkU9GmnKmRXOtvFGy8vhjLbZfTIMvmaiB5VpsRIb3CR RskI2beu4JIeWJbrEOYSjQygbr7ijxG00fA9OuqSE99eh8iyxXpaij0K7T1EOnumN5jwyib3RZaZ oqIOe1lpnlfvEfNdQ8nPfQY_KL9SiopJs9eKBh8ay.jzs.9oODhpmOlrAv13CxnzCgOq0GEFAtqq P816aaP.g.mux1ovPsbBD1y6vvHIIYhhtt2cX99E7cAdAQpM27l1EPxaL7Eu3tbPCdnZ9Hgifnvk aOxSGwU_N8KuP35zvBLrVNetSz1InERWy03hxiflMRT40k1VQEVpFeIPkciXkKxZBrikbc0sHafR Q89J4xI2Byvmh3MO7287n1LjcmPrRKVotNsRSnKfWDZ3emcdPDktF_ymUZ_e5JUSUs8CxnoXWUCq lHRPGq.t.NQ041mxrgCgLqa8K0J.P8m1_IJLrSbj2F5voQGSe0limtJ3pZJnp5YSCDcBbfveAWjj RWqCpjqo9lho7D3UiI59c6hgSKXlI6DWMUTX8iXi.OR8ky0AockhIm_mgab5m9ImqOStsalRX2hU zb3gY4b_pypT2h0mhmySdiLmEuuMAks0ZJdJnb053BMAcSYcnbM2I4dyAb_.3DJ.HHz3w4AtfPV1 ABcFJ5yzlHVYOH.HbxNShF5AozFaZ8YV9IekMBFu3DLsAf3.328hPXEhqrKIR9d3NxOi797Y4xkY Zf8aI7gDFjpdlkBUDS067rRGzPrRRPAV3g9mrp5WL8 X-Sonic-MF: Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic316.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:17:44 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-5f7658c994-bv4wk (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 620fa8ad2bec5f54727a56f87f126d6f; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:17:40 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (goncholden@protonmail.com's message of "Sun, 12 Jun 2022 23:25:15 +0000") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20280 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.187.148; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic316-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:137773 Archived-At: goncholden writes: > Come on now. I worked in England, the United States, and France. Do > you really think they conquered the world by being nice? Perhaps when > inside their own country. Everywhere else, it doubt that very much. None of us on this list (hopefully) aim to conquer the world. > I will tell you about netiquette. There has been a tendency for > prescriptive and rigid advice based on personal ideologies, rather > than listening about the struggles of users in whatever difficulties > they are encountering. When one is telling time and time again about > an unsolved problem, why do maintainers continue to forcefully insist > that it makes no sense to disable automatic indentation or automatic > re-indentation? One time these things did not exist and people > managed their projects quite well even then. But now people have got > so used to them that they have become totally dependent on them. > Their world view has changed so drastically that if someone else wants > to do it differently, it must surely be nonsense. Because you did not ask about automatic indentation. From the point of view of everyone except you, you were asking how to adapt the Emacs Fortran indentation rules to your (legacy) code, and not how to disable automatic indentation. Secondly, I cannot understand why changing the indentation around the location of edits is a problem at all, even with code written on "legacy" machines. Many years ago I worked on ALGOL 68 written in Russian in the 1970s and 1980s, and indentation did not prove to be a problem at all. > How can you speak of netiquette when the real problems are not raised > on the agenda, falling into a spiral of silence. To put it naively as > a pessimist conclusion of what will happen in spite of protests here > and there in that we will probably continue to slide toward some kind > of apocalypse awaiting large catastrophes to awaken us. I don't > accept any optimism when somebody tries to convince me that in spite > of all the problems there is a light at the end of the tunnel. My > instant reply is yes and it's probably another train coming towards > us. [...] > Please understand this, you will not ever find a global common and > acceptable style of communication. But learn to accept all forms of > styles of communication. This is why I have continued the discussion > that got us to an understanding of the automatic processes within > emacs that have to be disabled so I can do what is needed. I don't think we try to find a "global common and acceptable style of communication"; people are simply asked to be nice and to behave with the amount of courtesy generally expected on the internet, which happens to be very similar to what is expected in western Europe. > Go ask many people and tribes across the world (e.g. the Massai ) if > they want to move to america, the uk, or russia. They would say, > definitely not, never. In the international theatre, there are no > rules to say that we must play the game with your rules. The internet is not run by the Massai.