From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Android port Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2023 17:57:14 +0800 Message-ID: <87h6wb0yo5.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <87bkmv6z36.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <87bkmv6z36.fsf@yahoo.com> <83y1pzyqed.fsf@gnu.org> <875yd296la.fsf@yahoo.com> <83lelyzuph.fsf@gnu.org> <871qnq91l1.fsf@yahoo.com> <835yd2ps1v.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn5i7id9.fsf@yahoo.com> <831qnqppkm.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkmtoep1.fsf@gnu.org> <35ae19e677415c7f12d81cedb6f5e662a977f5d0.camel@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23985"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Jean Louis , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Konstantin Kharlamov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 28 10:58:22 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pLhyY-00064c-DG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2023 10:58:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pLhxr-0005mm-Py; Sat, 28 Jan 2023 04:57:39 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pLhxq-0005la-4i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2023 04:57:38 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic316-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.187.148]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pLhxo-0007Kf-Cv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2023 04:57:37 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1674899850; bh=5KAICbponmB08U9BKsHLQwc1GGo2IkeYfNifOPxA1Gg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=BVPsfujhwMOX6LTskC+fCQt0r85uotCpnN342RXtWMpCrqjXbi2Y6sV3SMblSQqN3W4EHWh/yUt84e+8LSWauv76kOdGNdZfZbs9+2JjjQhmeUlcDJa4uk1SHWnG6PrpwNT1SBq//lJ6n08T/MXmGrJ4ClJx/sNArnbL0GN480C5Tm24UrQ4hpwadCqRWsfrKWM37jldfRlJF27VmQKI9m4iDXvAGvfeMJP2wB1QDG2iVKbrEV5s/WekonfnVSoAKwOnZ5JiBLg9gJO6lWVENWlmDeiBDoSkruEgnXV4uobBwwbKQCNJzxznP6p0gHGxQILe2Uw4BHTa/tCmPXGeeA== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1674899850; bh=m2NaXyxEHfdYcTQ9CQp7zT7X26z5w5QBtnyzkD5RY0S=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=N8mB/pRKSrSn1bcU6swdTK9C2xMsvDSoqHvCOdKDZBZ44wsfPpFg5fXIi94XrKXI8n/DmJh434zV2DzMM/2d51ApzvhNSkolkPkHvS24ZvIOmM02c6vAcVKbdmgEg7HdGQdgY1a1zVmp1a7Qa3PbNX/+7kEHnNVB0AY6PyfJPXV/wmOHfkRdfUw22Wt4bhuhwMOZkudHRdVa/pGpYw7vP238CcK2RaCrihHiZMUVsuH+RJl29JwsbbfD3+lIMqfW/d2xQ9ieHuEsagaQ2pZT4kPkbgC6HgJ9E6/YeEQrnOmZNcxORePgLeTNkiVg9tLy+gNdMr7ST9fq92/uP1Z8oA== X-YMail-OSG: OGACyQ0VM1kUbH8F3ZXoz7YUgFrJ1aFBZcf3aljbIVUDEBNHAcqA85W4yQeJk7l um0vOIkbS8gt4qUCW6DHjTZJgqhIjd6mElTT.0XGC92JzFbmpe_W2RZ292UilyAyg5bV0gFcwgR2 46J7WXf_LrzfTD8Yl2nenbjj0obTWLcYLDIhOcoNnR8cPqjvYiYk5s7ZJI7.Cpj33MkJ4vTIAAGA IGpW_yefEBhogjP3pY2MNhphAmeInhUvCnklxZWHvZXJ4.A705sAAus_kDiQ2P0JRXwk9TYK6xs8 3MUg9ARRT6wCUAVV0rnOrJrmIidgiQkiypICRBA78GguyNvxXYPQxSnD0rWuyrXvEDMYWAmsloyW ouWpnYZ2x.wxbaVJe9YQSQmae_dE1MZjLiRSI8_zXTJCSTGcL8AaJHE65Co21n6kg.KpQQ4YRswn N_a8iAVRcxcSObJThpjlXHZq6Vrrx291qipwKzta9aLLYihIMLN1lh64DRT652VeiVI2cWfAm.ij YmXyq_lzo.GwmaM5IKZ_DEVc0Z6erSbXgmZ6ePCi_lYGPz9jyZOEmP4sF_wICegZd0B0FoGWDooi eNpKXEki.HlISDSHVhD5ZuLRv_QTp_aJAvuGBYTpLj6eDhLc71qO5Cm8wEZ_p4g6iJok9tdILMp9 q9ddxCPtJKuDrdI407_nQW1jvIJzxbMv3yqs5sgSAxpRundWDvxmkPjpFujp9m6SoTkAbEiwzXZ3 qApU9kYEXHtzcOw7vmS0AQjS9eKbsK_PXQGiJN58Z4cIA5wD2WdEJsBvfoLzzxGNQfq7XT6yGuHb gnp.wHB4zK5tZpFChXCyKRPhcBUGTNX.JcHL8rn8Mu X-Sonic-MF: Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic316.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 28 Jan 2023 09:57:30 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-9fc5746c8-pz6sb (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID b4d40a5fee175a2199a67ae1513df17d; Sat, 28 Jan 2023 09:57:25 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <35ae19e677415c7f12d81cedb6f5e662a977f5d0.camel@yandex.ru> (Konstantin Kharlamov's message of "Sat, 28 Jan 2023 10:50:02 +0300") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21123 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.187.148; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic316-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:302712 Archived-At: Konstantin Kharlamov writes: > On Fri, 2023-01-20 at 09:19 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 09:47:34 +0300 >> > From: Jean Louis >> > Cc: Po Lu , emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >=20 >> > * Eli Zaretskii [2023-01-19 17:28]: >> > > First, we need to decide whether we indeed want to have this in Emac= s. >> > > Android is not a free platform, so when its support comes with a lot >> > > of additional non-trivial code that we'd need to understand and >> > > support/maintain (including a lot of Java), we had better discussed >> > > that first. >> >=20 >> > Replicant is free platform. >>=20 >> That fact is not relevant to this discussion. > > I think the point Jean meant to make is that Android platform per se isn't > closed, even if the unfortunate situation is that many vendors ship a lot= of > closed code, mainly drivers (tho situation with closed drivers is slowly > improving, Google seem to be working on that). Google is working on allowing the proprietary drivers to run alongside any version of Linux, not on removing them entirely. Google themselves develop Play Services, arguably the most problematic piece of proprietary software in Android. > The link Jean posted is just one of (free and open source) derivatives of > Android platform. The other one very popular comes to mind was CyanogenMo= d, > which later was succeeded by LineageOS. LineageOS and CyanogenMod are not free software, because both contain proprietary device driver files, and in the case of CyanogenMod, proprietary user level libraries as well. AOSP, on the other hand, is really free software. But that doesn't help when you can only run it in an emulator. If you had read the Android appendix of the Emacs manual, you would have seen that it explains this situation: H.1 Android history =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Android is an operating system for mobile devices developed by the Open Handset Alliance, a group of companies interested in developing handsets that can run a common set of software. It is supposedly free software. Like the X Consortium of times past, the Open Handset Alliance believes that =E2=80=9Copenness=E2=80=9D (namely, the regular release of th= e Android source code) is simply a tool to increase the popularity of the Android platform. Computer companies normally produce proprietary software. The companies in the Open Handset Alliance are no different =E2=80=93 most versions of Android installed on devices are proprietary, by virtue of containing proprietary components, that often cannot even be replaced by the user. Android is not designed to respect users=E2=80=99 freedom. Almost all versions of Android (including some which are supposedly free software) include support for Digital Restrictions Management, technology that is designed to limit users=E2=80=99 ability to copy media to and from their own devices. Most Android devices also come with proprietary Google applications which are required to run the system, and many other Android applications. Thus, it must be necessary to consider Android proprietary software from a practical standpoint. That is an injustice. If you use Android, we urge you to switch to a free operating system, if only for your freedom=E2=80=99s sake. We support GNU Emacs on proprietary operating systems because we hope this taste of freedom will inspire users to escape from them.