From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tpeplt Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: vterm and Meta? Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2023 18:29:35 -0400 Message-ID: <87h6pfep4g.fsf@gmail.com> References: <83089d3fe2e4d5cf3369d7831a88877002a21557.camel@adminart.net> <85451979-85a8-033d-6148-18f5394edac7@gmail.com> <84a152e2-2332-9a18-3bd6-51b08ea4e6a1@gmail.com> <9bbba997e4ded0552c46f92797861b40c8138ead.camel@adminart.net> <87y1irewno.fsf@gmail.com> <576ece1610b9829380ad56115f84190ce745b360.camel@adminart.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23230"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: hw Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 04 00:30:28 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qRgpv-0005qf-AZ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Thu, 03 Aug 2023 15:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from t530.local ([2600:8806:a821:2b00::7fbe]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v1-20020a05620a122100b00767b37256ecsm218331qkj.107.2023.08.03.15.29.36 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 03 Aug 2023 15:29:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <576ece1610b9829380ad56115f84190ce745b360.camel@adminart.net> (hw@adminart.net's message of "Thu, 03 Aug 2023 23:32:04 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::730; envelope-from=tpeplt@gmail.com; helo=mail-qk1-x730.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:144582 Archived-At: hw writes: >>=20 >> Here is a keyboard remapping suggestion (bottom row of keyboard): >>=20 >> [alt/meta] [ctrl] [ space ] [ctrl] [alt/meta] >>=20 >> With this arrangement, the Ctrl-[ combination for the Meta key is >> pressed with your left thumb (short reach) and right pinkie (short >> reach). A key combination such as C-M-v (the =E2=80=98scroll-other-wind= ow=E2=80=99 >> command) is performed by pressing and holding the key while >> pressing the =E2=80=98[=E2=80=99 key. Then those keys are released just= as would be >> done when pressing the key and the -v key will complete the >> key combination. > > Try it on a keyboard shown in [1] (which is an awesome keyboard > indeed), or on a German keyboard :) It's awkward to press. Swapping > Ctrl with Alt on the right would make it easier, but that would take > some getting used to. > > On a German keyboard, Ctrl-[ is virtually inaccessible because you > would have to press AltGr+Shift+8, and the only AltGr key you get is > on the right. > > > [1]: > https://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=3DPROD&Product_Code=3D= UB40B5A > If I am seeing this photo correctly, there are keys immediately to the left and right of the space bar. These are the ones to swap with the keys (which I cannot locate in the picture). The =E2=80=98[=E2= =80=99 key is immediately to the right of the =E2=80=98P=E2=80=99 key. Those are the sam= e locations as I am referring to. Use the left thumb to press and hold the key while the right pinkie presses the =E2=80=98[=E2=80=99 key. This is a = minimal amount of reach and does not contort either the left or right hand. The combination is used the same way that the key is used: Press and release the two keys (think ) and then press the next key in the combination. This avoids having to press and hold the key in combination with the key. This might not be to your taste (just as Emacs=E2=80=99s key combinations d= rive some people to use vi). It can work very well and until I had moved to this arrangement years ago, I routinely had RSI problems. > >> The advantage of this approach is that the long thumb reach for either >> key is avoided except for rare instances, while the short thumb >> reach is used for frequent instances of or -[. There is >> also an extra benefit for touch typists -- it is much more rare that >> unused fingers need to be lifted from the home keys. > > I always take my fingers off the home row for moving around, except > for Ctrl-a and Ctrl-e. That way I can use the cursor keys and > PgDown/PgUp keys --- it's what makes sense to me. > If you move the keys to the sides of the bar, then many Ctrl sequences become available. -n/-p can quickly replace the Up/Down arrow keys. becomes a second key, but more easily reached than . > Ctrl and Alt are special keys for me which aren't included in > 10-finger typing. Typewriters don't have these keys, and they are > very awkwardly positioned ... I'd be impressed if you can use these > keys just like all the others. > Once re-positioned, the keys are not much more difficult to reach for your thumbs than the bar and easier to reach than the keys (using your stronger thumbs rather than your weaker pinkies). >> If it is available to you, the =E2=80=98gnome-tweaks=E2=80=99 package ca= n be used to >> remap the Alt and Ctrl keys. Within the gnome-tweaks application, see >> the "Keyboard & Mouse" settings and then select the "Additional Layout >> Options". > > Right --- yet what makes Alt for Meta so great is that you can do > stuff directly, like M-x right away puts you into the minibuffer where > you can enter the name of the function you want to call. Having to > use ESC or Ctrl-[ makes this awkward because you have to press ESC > first and then x. That has always been weird. It should be less weird if you reposition the keys next to the bar. It puts them within reach of some of your strongest fingers -- your thumbs. Once done, it becomes a touch-typing exercise where you learn to think when reaching for with your left thumb and [ with your right pinkie. Touch typing requires repetitious practicing, as you likely know well. A suggestion to try is to reposition the keys and go through the Emacs Tutorial (C-h t). That would provide practice using many Ctrl key combinations and could help you decide whether this new approach is to your liking. --