From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
To: "Alfred M. Szmidt" <ams@gnu.org>
Cc: eliz@gnu.org, incal@dataswamp.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Shrinking the C core
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2023 19:15:44 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87h6ot7cf3.fsf@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1qXnZW-00006Y-S0@fencepost.gnu.org>
"Alfred M. Szmidt" <ams@gnu.org> writes:
> Then, what does GCC do? AFAIK, GCC JIT takes the Elisp byte code,
> transforms it into JIT pseudocode, and optimizes the actual code flow.
>
> What does GCC do _WHERE_? What backend? What language? You're
> speaking in such broad terms that it makes it impossible to continue
> this discussion. I don't know how the native compilation works, but
> no matter what you feed to GCC it cannot do magic and any optimization
> should be done on what the Emacs compiler does.
Native compilation provides the necessary information about Elisp to GCC.
Otherwise, native compilation would be useless.
You may check out the details in
https://zenodo.org/record/3736363 and
https://toobnix.org/w/1f997b3c-00dc-4f7d-b2ce-74538c194fa7
> For example, when I write
>
> (when (> x y) (when (> x y) x))
>
> I expect GCC JIT to throw away the duplicate comparison.
>
> Why do you expect that? Why do you think it is duplicate? Where are
> the guarantees that > or WHEN don't have side-effects? Do you know
> the exact type of X and Y so you can skip a cascade of type checks to
> pick the right comparison operator? Can you use fixnum comparison of
> a specific bit width? Do you need to use bignum comparison?
At least some of these questions are answered by the code on Emacs side.
Native compiler transforms the Elisp byte code, using its knowledge
about function purity, types, and maybe other things, into LIMP that can
be fed to GCC JIT. Then, GCC JIT uses the provided info to do actual
optimization.
> That is the type of information SBCL knows about, or allows the user
> to specify. Emacs does not have that today, and that incures one set
> of overhead. There are plenty more...
AFAIK, users cannot specify type info manually, but types are tracked
when transforming Elisp byte code into LIMP representation.
The only problem (AFAIU) is that GCC JIT cannot reach inside subr level,
so all these information does not benefit Emacs functions implemented in
C.
--
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-08-20 19:15 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 353+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-08-09 9:46 Shrinking the C core Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-09 10:55 ` Andreas Schwab
2023-08-09 11:03 ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-09 11:29 ` Andreas Schwab
2023-08-09 12:34 ` Po Lu
2023-08-09 15:51 ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-09 23:56 ` Po Lu
2023-08-10 1:19 ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-10 1:47 ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-10 1:58 ` Eric Frederickson
2023-08-10 2:07 ` Sam James
2023-08-10 2:44 ` Po Lu
2023-08-10 6:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-10 21:21 ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-10 21:19 ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-10 21:56 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 5:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-11 8:45 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 11:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-11 12:12 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 13:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-10 2:28 ` Po Lu
2023-08-10 4:15 ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-10 7:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-10 21:54 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 10:27 ` Bignum performance (was: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 12:10 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 12:32 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 12:38 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 14:07 ` [PATCH] " Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 18:06 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 19:41 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 19:50 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 8:24 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-12 16:03 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 9:09 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-13 9:49 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 10:21 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14 2:20 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 2:42 ` [PATCH] Re: Bignum performance Po Lu
2023-08-14 4:16 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 7:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14 7:50 ` Po Lu
2023-08-14 9:28 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-15 14:28 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 7:20 ` [PATCH] Re: Bignum performance (was: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 22:46 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 8:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-12 16:22 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 9:12 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 14:14 ` Mattias Engdegård
2023-08-11 18:09 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-10 23:49 ` Shrinking the C core Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-11 0:03 ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-11 8:24 ` Immanuel Litzroth
2023-08-11 7:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-11 7:19 ` tomas
2023-08-11 10:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-10 11:28 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-08-10 21:26 ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-12 2:46 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-12 3:22 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 8:33 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-12 15:58 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 9:13 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-13 9:55 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 10:23 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-13 20:55 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 0:13 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 18:32 ` tomas
2023-08-12 22:08 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 23:09 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 5:50 ` tomas
2023-08-13 8:38 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 15:54 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2023-08-13 8:00 ` Andreas Schwab
2023-08-13 9:21 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 7:27 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-14 7:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14 7:50 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-15 22:57 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-16 10:27 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-19 13:29 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 5:09 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 6:51 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 7:14 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 7:52 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 13:01 ` tomas
2023-08-20 13:12 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 8:28 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 9:29 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 15:22 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 15:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 15:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-20 15:54 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 16:29 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 16:37 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 17:19 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 17:31 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 18:54 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 19:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-27 3:53 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 19:15 ` Ihor Radchenko [this message]
2023-08-20 19:24 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 2:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 4:11 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 4:15 ` Po Lu
2023-08-21 4:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 4:43 ` Po Lu
2023-08-21 5:06 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 5:25 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2023-08-21 5:34 ` Po Lu
2023-08-21 9:17 ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR (was: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 9:42 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-08-21 10:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 11:02 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 11:41 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 12:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 14:49 ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR Andrea Corallo
2023-08-23 10:11 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-25 9:19 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-25 11:06 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-25 14:26 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-26 11:14 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 1:40 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 7:38 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 13:42 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-27 22:19 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-28 5:04 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-28 19:49 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-26 0:47 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-26 8:26 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 17:52 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-21 11:05 ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR (was: Shrinking the C core) Gregory Heytings
2023-08-21 11:46 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 12:33 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-08-21 11:34 ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR Manuel Giraud via Emacs development discussions.
2023-08-21 11:02 ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR (was: Shrinking the C core) Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 11:12 ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 11:53 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 2:04 ` Shrinking the C core Emanuel Berg
2023-08-21 7:59 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-08-27 5:31 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 6:16 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-21 10:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 11:56 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 12:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-28 4:41 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-28 11:27 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 20:15 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 20:39 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 5:59 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 6:23 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 7:21 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 7:26 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 7:52 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 10:46 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 11:02 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-27 4:01 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 8:53 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 3:48 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 9:06 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 3:25 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 8:55 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 16:03 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 16:34 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 17:19 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 17:25 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 18:54 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 19:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-20 20:11 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-23 21:09 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-26 2:01 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-26 5:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-26 18:15 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-26 18:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-20 19:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-20 19:44 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 20:11 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 2:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 8:48 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 11:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 11:59 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 12:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-23 10:13 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 20:32 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-21 6:19 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 6:26 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 7:21 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 7:25 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 7:52 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 11:26 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-22 23:55 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-23 7:04 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-23 17:24 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-24 20:02 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 21:51 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2023-08-21 8:54 ` Type declarations in Elisp (was: [External] : Re: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 9:30 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-21 11:13 ` Type declarations in Elisp Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 11:37 ` Type declarations in Elisp (was: [External] : Re: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-22 5:34 ` Type declarations in Elisp Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-22 6:16 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-22 11:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-22 23:33 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-25 9:29 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-25 20:42 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 8:42 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 14:04 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-27 14:07 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 15:46 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-27 17:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 18:06 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-28 9:56 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-28 19:06 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-18 8:35 ` Shrinking the C core Aurélien Aptel
2023-08-19 13:32 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-31 1:41 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 2:36 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-14 4:12 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 11:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-12 3:28 ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-12 3:48 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 3:50 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 6:00 ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-12 6:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-12 7:38 ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-09 12:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-09 16:11 ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-09 16:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-09 17:57 ` Eric S. Raymond
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2023-08-13 7:59 Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-13 8:44 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 8:06 Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-13 9:26 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 11:20 Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-13 12:52 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 15:14 Arthur Miller
2023-08-27 16:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-28 5:32 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-28 6:23 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 6:21 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 1:31 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-28 5:50 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 12:20 ` Po Lu
2023-08-28 14:39 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 15:17 ` Po Lu
2023-08-29 2:41 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 1:41 ` Po Lu
2023-08-28 2:53 ` chad
2023-08-28 3:43 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-28 4:53 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 5:36 ` Po Lu
2023-08-28 6:55 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 7:31 ` Po Lu
2023-08-28 8:06 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-28 14:30 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 15:09 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-29 2:20 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 15:14 ` Po Lu
2023-08-29 2:36 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-29 4:07 ` Po Lu
2023-08-31 1:07 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-28 14:08 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 15:08 ` Po Lu
2023-08-29 2:06 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-29 4:15 ` Po Lu
2023-08-29 11:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-29 3:57 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-01 1:18 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-31 2:07 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-01 14:58 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-01 16:36 ` tomas
2023-09-04 1:32 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-04 1:44 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-04 5:49 ` Rudolf Schlatte
2023-09-04 14:08 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 1:21 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-07 1:54 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 7:02 ` tomas
2023-09-07 7:36 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-09-07 7:56 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 8:19 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-07 8:39 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 9:28 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-09-09 1:00 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-09 6:25 ` Po Lu
2023-09-09 7:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-07 9:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-07 9:39 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-09 1:06 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-11 0:43 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-11 12:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-11 12:43 ` tomas
2023-09-13 5:59 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-12 4:44 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-09-12 12:25 ` João Távora
2023-09-12 11:31 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-09-13 6:12 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-05 4:23 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-06 0:58 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-06 1:12 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-06 5:04 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-06 11:29 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-09-06 23:03 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 7:00 ` tomas
2023-09-07 7:23 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 7:52 ` tomas
2023-09-07 5:30 ` Po Lu
2023-09-07 6:15 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-11 0:43 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-11 12:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-12 23:55 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-13 6:34 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 8:51 ` Manuel Giraud via Emacs development discussions.
2023-09-07 9:20 ` Po Lu
2023-09-07 9:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-08 2:00 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-08 7:35 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-09-09 10:05 ` João Távora
2023-09-08 17:58 ` Bob Rogers
2023-09-15 21:59 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-17 23:03 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-09 0:39 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-09 12:50 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-12 0:27 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-28 7:45 ` Andrea Monaco
2023-08-28 14:35 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-12 3:46 Arthur Miller
2023-09-12 11:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-12 18:22 ` chad
2023-09-12 18:47 ` Yuri Khan
2023-09-12 19:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-12 19:07 ` joakim
2023-09-12 19:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-12 21:56 ` joakim
2023-09-13 5:05 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-13 14:29 ` joakim
2023-09-15 5:46 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-13 15:33 ` Fraga, Eric
2023-09-15 5:51 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-15 11:38 ` Fraga, Eric
2023-09-12 3:51 Arthur Miller
2023-09-12 4:47 ` tomas
2023-09-12 11:29 ` Po Lu
2023-09-12 13:02 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-09-13 5:06 Arthur Miller
2023-09-13 6:33 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-09-14 11:35 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-14 13:03 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-09-14 13:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-15 17:11 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-15 18:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
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