From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Manuel Giraud via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Shrinking the C core Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2023 10:51:23 +0200 Message-ID: <87h6o6v01g.fsf@ledu-giraud.fr> References: <87ledwx7sh.fsf@yahoo.com> <877cpfybhf.fsf@yahoo.com> <873503y66i.fsf@yahoo.com> <87v8cmft42.fsf@yahoo.com> Reply-To: Manuel Giraud Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12845"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Arthur Miller , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 07 10:52:35 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qeAkc-00033j-OF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 10:52:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qeAjd-0002pf-62; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 04:51:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qeAjb-0002ns-Mp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 04:51:31 -0400 Original-Received: from ledu-giraud.fr ([51.159.28.247]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qeAjY-0001dx-UG; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 04:51:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=ed25519; bh=STolI58z dWxMOejyvSUlKv2jfKDnwYeFP2vzLqhg9Nc=; h=date:references:in-reply-to: subject:cc:to:from; d=ledu-giraud.fr; b=ydyNHK1M/MAeF7l1k+hjGFLpyuH+Df TtRPG1PYQxLMJZoKdfgDwiVhlRcvBC3c2Kx5VZnDfkyybqcM2AYYxXCg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=rsa; bh=STolI58zdWxMOejy vSUlKv2jfKDnwYeFP2vzLqhg9Nc=; h=date:references:in-reply-to:subject: cc:to:from; d=ledu-giraud.fr; b=nDp0KIYuoh7f2iRXVHFZ35spXVAOmmfqUd0NOu mlsbArohM2Bvd+P+ZQ9tap1rpq1YzmtCaIP2l1myoUOQYKepmpP0l4DR9s5mfQaod71C2p 9XcvF4RaUKFYbz5A4KiO0U8pvEB4NujoCGYywgf+EyaNK0myp2+N7CT3o7wZ/HPzlBtzul yj5lQdtQl1lghBuW+jryUziLXEmCqDfMTMCsccxF1QoSc8nGhiAEkIOFgjIA4huQAg3ntX CqXi4aIYJKgj9DnQP7IFYvcJ0N+Hp5bQK4To6IdLJFShtovt8w8RzJrNn+88YjocdMNk9o 6zNohod9a4qrFF+PDDD6wkTA== Original-Received: from computer ( [10.1.1.1]) by ledu-giraud.fr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 3051e0fd (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 7 Sep 2023 10:51:24 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87v8cmft42.fsf@yahoo.com> (Po Lu's message of "Thu, 07 Sep 2023 13:30:05 +0800") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=51.159.28.247; envelope-from=manuel@ledu-giraud.fr; helo=ledu-giraud.fr X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310246 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > Alan Mackenzie writes: > >> Yes. There was a time not so long ago when cl.el was banned from use in >> our Lisp code, except for at compile time. Our Emacs Lisp was small, >> simple to understand, and easy to learn. Now things in cl-lib.el get >> used as if they are just a normal part of Emacs Lisp. Our language is >> thus MUCH more difficult to understand, perhaps by a factor of somewhere >> between 3 and 10. When perusing even established parts of Emacs I groan >> inwardly every time I encounter one of these needless cl-lib features. >> It stops me dead, forcing me to consult doc strings (which are often >> missing and often inadequate even when they are present) or even manuals. > > I agree. The use of generic functions for window system initialization > irks me to no end. Not Emacs related anymore, but I'd like to hear your point of view on this matter. It seems to me that a window system is a good candidate for genericity. -- Manuel Giraud