From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Moving packages out of core to ELPA Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 09:42:54 +0800 Message-ID: <87h6i6y2ch.fsf@yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21751"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: emacs-devel To: JD Smith Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 18 02:44:07 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rbWDv-0005XU-DJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 02:44:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rbWD3-0006bm-Mt; Sat, 17 Feb 2024 20:43:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rbWD1-0006bP-1j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2024 20:43:11 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic303-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.188.148]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rbWCz-0005Gz-Gy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2024 20:43:10 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1708220585; bh=uomPWmJFFQgCr5gp2moK7nbh6jGb/MlZ0cTGBWzp1MI=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=gNUgZj3gw9rLhhAEp5xi0Rp4vI7dUetZDo16WmPO2SrO/eZ2ROLsgsWUcqVhCCi7Y0+kRrGvyoYebC45QMEXrjBSVqUzzzbop6/zgMyoLB4slHd/L5S8N701iJTxc9PXkOu1ZAxmEfjoQefh8k/oykRqgQNlK5PqRaILQOpKyZ1hHRNX1wyvJUlDf87U5E7QrVubrx541db+uyGLxxmKRwUjA/pnMmKKpo74tHDyINnizGZLVI68cZI91VD9bGx/rye6+CQpBn0iS4uFo8njWUjdzxLCM9okMZQdLPaQXXACx3xDpgfP/3CXCofYaeE2HNW4feJIKEGjnD0E5/dCvQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1708220585; bh=OkPI2+2ZTITwCqKDfUfs1yiwDkFtgx3EwEi7TmHB7wt=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=acAzToQShrWFJJH7AGvkF5mtXHWOD8eNrQ2h0etlG0z4XhV5p8eXHMir1bt5HHBmioNTDhzumPc0Pf8qk+Mvy1+1On+pZRc5+Ro4Nd3XGUbLkWYg0IDtEPGUsbER55qoROEMCsLo8I+Hmj+DdapchUZ7EQkAkc31PShO5o6NtKPGFK71VSNY7vK94Gcv+olraoFnt+ZmzqoKba94PChbNmB436CC8KW48hMKdeHUL6CLQnO1wtO82NVWpnWr/9w4elUJu796pCQ78L5MmhFXI/yq8h8xVx99N9gjOLv29yLb0IAWWXMAhXYhIdgwf7clf5v+DGui/U+772KKi84eaA== X-YMail-OSG: UYn_ySUVM1mK0LmmeUTyKhi9q7zV0OvuV9EKPgyzLWKICd8UKm4hb.QTsMh8nin NCqXawnuaYwUfrxuTE.YIxXOVJKFo51R2JsyOwYe3pTG2Apwa9D0XQhdZ8uGOaZWyPO1lxk4nJ3T 6Ru6XdtWzdB1sUJ_5tlF8Oc6zDWipNY1gcBIwLuBynvBxX_497KYQcTM7S.djRwrhDk5oiZsr9td QKhgcKiAU5wnvtrdA_ds_wKRNC_tqAuOEHyt2gsmBsB76VyWYfORmJO7PELlB.Xuzy5B7A4SKwOq x8cIv7mdopUYjBkLIxiuv4wnHiiykYL_SJeBufCA7nNtbVqKcRBiS9NN70BdlRzUphGGursEML9k WB4eImyEK15W9_m6Mo9_f3tWfoDnwFPOPAB_Ko7QOIgmaqspzWLqVJYw06ogR02spoh03hQMLce6 9SLjjFMuNy7GB1IYkmGvTMa9NlD79oOvjHU22LSoKqxerBdbVFjMjUQP5BlJ2EUq.4sPJnrekAIp s2SC2LeZPw66fj_L9sRmTJuxy8dbx7U8e4ycGDJj2fCw8jRirdkfo02xzF_gTIh5Q6hIavlJ_2fd p3uhxn_qe.2L64jh066dVtgT51ZaoTD9cpw68sJOXYbFzBklIhJIri.aclk5.zmPKOImfiq2Hk6a D2k04ZeSkXOiv48T4Ics25loYdBiKyeFxpKVUaDVJlZ6aRREKYAlvsdC9z4IGCjq2ZiNh_Is8QNB 28DIKVfo4jl.aP.M5J.Gl7rWy69eWRBz13fCG1m4.yxk.C6kFlTfnQi5Tdl2TIEcdtOJ2boIVdvc 0zZs5GqafQKWZMun90g_SWKNAHPLiaqyGnB9Ya0WH3 X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: a5c7797d-ae88-45c3-a84e-c891fcf73f2c Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic303.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 01:43:05 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-6dc75bc8fb-qvr7d (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 47b3e4e49996c2ecfb962d5e824bed4e; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 01:43:00 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (JD Smith's message of "Sat, 17 Feb 2024 09:40:19 -0500") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22077 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.188.148; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic303-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:316287 Archived-At: JD Smith writes: > There was a recent discussion about which lisp/progmodes packages > belong in core. A sentiment was expressed that useful languages with > non-negligible user bases should probably go in, and others should be > in ELPA. > > I want to bring up a related point: it should be possible to retire > packages from core, once their relevance drops below a critical > threshold [1]. Every instance of this is a mistake. Why is it so essential that such packages be removed from core? What practical advantage does that hold? A Lisp file is considered part of Emacs, whether it be in core or in ELPA. They are expected to meet like standards, and bugs (in the absence of a maintainer) are the responsibility of the same Emacs developers who respond to bugs that concern Emacs in general, i.e., like developers. The only additional burden the existence of a file in core implies over being hosted in ELPA is the copyright header update, an automated process that consumes little time, and whose frequency is not greater than once a year. > Judging by my email traffic on the topic, there are very few users of > IDLWAVE remaining. Even I touch it only a few times a year. No one > has stepped up to maintain it in the 7 years since I stepped aside. > IDL is still a powerful language and IDLWAVE itself has a great number > of features I sorely miss in other emacs programming modes. It > deserves support in Emacs. Just not, IMO, in core. Why not? Why does _anything_, to speak nothing of a package already in core, not "deserve" support in core, while deserving support in ELPA?