From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bastien Guerry Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: basic question: going back to dired Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:53:40 +0200 Message-ID: <87fxq1rhbf.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> References: <4884DC7F.6060406@gmail.com> <819feff4-76e3-4bf8-9ece-7b47f099efc2@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <87hcaiiatp.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216745682 19551 80.91.229.12 (22 Jul 2008 16:54:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:54:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: "Juanma Barranquero" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 22 18:55:30 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KLL95-0004dm-Lq for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:55:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42826 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLL8C-0000Cc-Jf for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:54:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLL7t-0000CN-5c for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:54:13 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLL7r-0000CB-OJ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:54:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48463 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLL7r-0000C8-JR for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:54:11 -0400 Original-Received: from qb-out-0506.google.com ([72.14.204.234]:64760) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KLL7r-0005GP-FR for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:54:11 -0400 Original-Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id e12so3078761qbe.0 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:54:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:sender; bh=md4aq8TFy7xG/Bd/ITV9IA+L50SM8Afzog7Piiq429s=; b=mXMVjXwE2DjuxtVJ8IN4Y/NLkmIC8SJR3Etx9Epi7t8AZ2usHY2MugrJrXpC5riD8j 4Bn3Hr5gpQdy3r9pu6JDr402rE1Ygn1yFNYa9F/TcBac5wlgjPYrQmvXarKnaNzqHp3w 5uJ9NO42/+i054WIHzbYtUck79vyzc2Ids2Kg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type:sender; b=P523egVLcqM/mqtrwlH7G3VKQQ1gT9dvPtpa3bgj3vGM2a33NBCWQ/OdwMqMprtv30 K9X74WNj7PWQXs6NyWMZD7lX/Yd4XLnMFkw6AIwMeRmrCIY3ivKo+vo5K164USNFZqB5 PRBLHp9CzZIqWzlRb77csJFHSkjRoqfloPBxg= Original-Received: by 10.210.46.12 with SMTP id t12mr4709582ebt.64.1216745649903; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from bzg.ath.cx ( [79.94.49.81]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k9sm15923414nfh.23.2008.07.22.09.53.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by bzg.ath.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4105E157568; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:53:40 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Juanma Barranquero's message of "Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:29:27 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110009 (No Gnus v0.9) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:55815 Archived-At: "Juanma Barranquero" writes: > On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 10:26, Bastien Guerry wrote: > >> Adopting Emacs terminology is not good per se, it's good because it >> helps people adopt Emacs. > > Adapting Emacs terminology to current conventions would perhaps be > good for the very same reason. Yes, as long as the terminology matches the underlying concepts. For example, replacing "buffer" by "workspace" in the manual would not only be a huge work, it would also be misleading: because you would soon have to deal with expectations that people already have with the notion of "workspace". So instead of saying "A workspace in Emacs is like the one you have in Eclipse, but there is a difference..." - why not stick to history? > I'm not for or against changing Emacs' terminology. I think it would > be a huge amount of work. But I don't understand why some people > reacts as if the very idea is flawed. I do react about terminology because I think such a discussion is never about terminology only. It's also about the concepts behind. If Emacs were more file-centric, then I wouldn't understand why there is no shortcut (sic!) to Open/Close. > There's nothing sacred in "buffer" and "keybinding" and "minibuffer", > just history. The change should be susceptible to rational (if perhaps > a bit pointless) discussion, because it is not hard to find good > arguments for it; "frame/window" vs "window/pane" is a good example. Ok, history always comes with some arbitrary choice. But it's hard to move from an arbitrary choice with a non-arbitrary reason. -- Bastien