From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:35:53 +0900 Message-ID: <87fwzkgi1i.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> <87sk3oe3la.fsf@telefonica.net> <1154D96E7D2F401D849266F359E44BB9@us.oracle.com> <87ocecdzou.fsf@telefonica.net> <2256C17F740A425884AD551DE7758056@us.oracle.com> <87fwzodqqm.fsf@telefonica.net> <5138CDF30B2D4B778F948015614DA7BC@us.oracle.com> <87iq4ijtdy.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <838w5dgln1.fsf@gnu.org> <87d3updqup.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87bpa8bx9p.fsf@telefonica.net> <83sk3kg3fj.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279256757 28699 80.91.229.12 (16 Jul 2010 05:05:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 05:05:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 16 07:05:55 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZd7T-00076l-CQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:05:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34509 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZd7S-0008Ja-UM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 01:05:54 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=47063 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZd7L-0008JL-UX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 01:05:48 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZd7K-00024d-Fg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 01:05:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:40967) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZd7H-00022g-W4; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 01:05:44 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE3CF7FFA; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:42:27 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1F4621A2674; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:35:53 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <83sk3kg3fj.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" ed3b274cc037 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127407 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Let me give you an example. The keybinding I tend to use most in > Emacs is M-/. Do we have anything similar in other applications? AFAIK, "no and yes". No, I can't recall another application which has this functionality on a key. But many applications (including Firefox and Open Office, where it drives me to distraction) will provide dynamic autocompletion (as you yourself mentioned) with a popup menu which you can access with TAB (in Open Office and MS Office IIRC) or DOWN (Firefox in general, and the Google search widget, which does a substantially better job IMO). It is not obvious to me that providing that feature in addition to M-/ style completion would be a bad idea. > From personal experience, it is not a disaster to use two different > sets of keybindings. Yes, sometimes you will err and curse. But it > won't let you abandon a tool that is otherwise useful. Making Emacs > extremely useful is therefore the single most important way of making > it more popular among those who it targets. I have to agree with that, however. Autocompletion is at best a nice feature for many newbies. It won't help attract the kind of new-user- cum-future-developer that Emacs needs.