From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 13:51:36 +0900 Message-ID: <87fwz9v5wn.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> <87sk3oe3la.fsf@telefonica.net> <1154D96E7D2F401D849266F359E44BB9@us.oracle.com> <87ocecdzou.fsf@telefonica.net> <2256C17F740A425884AD551DE7758056@us.oracle.com> <87fwzodqqm.fsf@telefonica.net> <5138CDF30B2D4B778F948015614DA7BC@us.oracle.com> <87iq4ijtdy.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87bpa7uu1e.fsf@kanis.fr> <87hbjr9x71.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87d3uf9vb2.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87wrsmully.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279947117 30412 80.91.229.12 (24 Jul 2010 04:51:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 04:51:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: David Kastrup , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 24 06:51:54 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcWiH-00074a-3a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 06:51:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53402 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OcWiE-0001wL-OH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 00:51:50 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=47646 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OcWi6-0001wE-PM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 00:51:43 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcWi5-0008DL-Nl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 00:51:42 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp12.dentaku.gol.com ([203.216.5.74]:57603) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcWi3-0008Cs-On; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 00:51:39 -0400 Original-Received: from 218.33.232.67.eo.eaccess.ne.jp ([218.33.232.67] helo=catnip.gol.com) by smtp12.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) id 1OcWi1-0000mT-O2; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 13:51:37 +0900 Original-Received: by catnip.gol.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E0522DF8A; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 13:51:36 +0900 (JST) System-Type: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: (Lennart Borgman's message of "Sat, 24 Jul 2010 05:33:12 +0200") Original-Lines: 38 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV GOL (outbound) X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127736 Archived-At: Lennart Borgman writes: >> [That is not a mode in the normal sense -- people don't think of "oh, >> I'll enter C-x mode, then hit C-s," they think of the entire thing >> sequence as a single entity. =C2=A0So the downsides normally attributed = to >> modality don't really apply.] > > Of course it is a mode in the normal sense, however with a short life. The "normal sense" precludes "modes" that have sub-second lifetimes in use, because they are thought about very differently by the user. > It can create trouble for someone used to CUA keys where you cut with > C-x or copy with C-c. No doubt; a shame, but it's not obvious what we can do about it without causing many more problems. >>> Of course this work around is not needed any more of CUA would be made >>> a first class citizen in Emacs. >> >> No doubt --- but the costs of doing that (which you constantly seem to >> simply ignore) seem very high, and thus it is unlikely to happen. > > So is not the best to find a way to minimize the cost? Sure -- but thus far, the only remotely practical method appears to be "don't use CUA." I don't have any religious objection to CUA keys (well at least the C-x/C-c/C-v triumvirate), if there were a practical way of accommodating them without excessive problems -- but thus far, despite all the vigorous hand-waving and pontificating, nobody has actually come up with anything that seems remotely practical. -Miles --=20 Run away! Run away!