From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: C-d deleting region considered harmful Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 03:40:31 +0900 Message-ID: <87fwx699pc.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <87eicrx1ls.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4C94E03D.8090002@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1284835254 32705 80.91.229.12 (18 Sep 2010 18:40:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 18:40:54 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 18 20:40:52 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ox2LE-00011g-FR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 20:40:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50929 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ox2LD-00069I-TI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 14:40:51 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=56097 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ox2L5-00068h-Ri for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 14:40:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ox2L4-0001cv-ER for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 14:40:43 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:51291) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ox2L4-0001cV-4F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 14:40:42 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ox2L1-0000ri-Sw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 20:40:39 +0200 Original-Received: from 218.231.154.125.eo.eaccess.ne.jp ([218.231.154.125]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 20:40:39 +0200 Original-Received: from miles by 218.231.154.125.eo.eaccess.ne.jp with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 20:40:39 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 41 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 218.231.154.125.eo.eaccess.ne.jp System-Type: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu Cancel-Lock: sha1:pCBJGed1dm9/ergeg54EPFHVvds= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:130432 Archived-At: Christoph writes: >> However, the effect of "C-d" deleting the active region has been >> driving me nuts for quite a while. > > I am trying to understand the real problem here. I personally think the > new behavior is more intuitive, but anyway. If you mark an active > region, why exactly do you press C-d? Wouldn't you expect the command > after selecting the active region to be executed on the active region? I press C-d to delete the character after the cursor -- the command is called "delete-forward-char" after all. Adding a new meaning when the region is activated may or may not be an extra convenience, but it's not unambiguously natural behavior. It's not uncommon to have the region be activated somewhat inadvertently; this is generally harmless, but since the traditional behavior in emacs is to simply deactivate the region when one hits C-d, I've apparently become used to hitting C-d to perform its traditional functionality, even when the region is active. Because C-d is a very low-level command, this sort of thing usually occurs in a quick sequence of commands, not as a carefully considered event where I think deeply about the meaning and consequence of each keystroke before executing it. As I mentioned, DEL/backspace theoretically suffer the same issue, but don't seem to be a problem for me in practice; maybe that's because I've also become used to the "extra functionality" in that case due to using mac/windows software. Moreover, adding this new functionality to DEL/backspace has undeniable utility, because many many mac/windows users have that particular usage hardwired into their fingers. This is _not_ true of C-d. -miles -- People who are more than casually interested in computers should have at least some idea of what the underlying hardware is like. Otherwise the programs they write will be pretty weird. -- Donald Knuth