From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Issues with emacs Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:52:28 +0200 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <87fw9hrgub.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> References: <87bokbb4zw.fsf@gnu.org> <83086e1d-d66a-4e0c-95a7-92d10a6de7e7@f8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com> <87r4t3krun.fsf@friendface.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1340740379 5455 80.91.229.3 (26 Jun 2012 19:52:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:52:59 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 26 21:52:59 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Sjboo-0002bb-UQ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:52:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52191 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sjboo-0000wg-UM for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:52:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35736) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sjboh-0000w3-SZ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:52:54 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sjboe-0002Mh-BF for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:52:51 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:58558) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sjboe-0002MA-1G for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:52:48 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SjboX-0002Ii-Cn for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:52:41 +0200 Original-Received: from 81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com ([81.202.16.46]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:52:41 +0200 Original-Received: from pjb by 81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:52:41 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 42 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:YzRkYmM1YjI3NDRhYTQxZWZiZDA2MzExMGY0OTRiOTJlMGJkZmY2Mw== X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:85492 Archived-At: "Ludwig, Mark" writes: >> From: notbob >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:28 PM >> To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org >> Subject: Re: Issues with emacs >> >> I realize emacs would be much more useful if I was a programmer, >> particularly a lisp programmer, but I'm not. > > This summarizes the split among the Emacs user community that I see in > this discussion thread. Those of us who are programmer types are > probably a lot happier with Emacs as it is (and as it has been since > its start many decades ago) than those who aren't programmer types. > Partly it's mindset, but also gets to depth of knowledge about how to > use the tool -- and how to change what it does/how it works. > > Regarding bloat, an analogy: if all you ever need is one specific > knife blade, a Swiss Army Knife will seem to have a lot of bloat. This hasn't to be. As RMS shown us, even secretaries can like emacs, if we just NOT tell them they have to program it: just tell them about "configuring" it. Don't ever mention the words "program", "programming", etc. http://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.html It was Bernie Greenberg, who discovered that it was (5). He wrote a version of Emacs in Multics MacLisp, and he wrote his commands in MacLisp in a straightforward fashion. The editor itself was written entirely in Lisp. Multics Emacs proved to be a great success — programming new editing commands was so convenient that even the secretaries in his office started learning how to use it. They used a manual someone had written which showed how to extend Emacs, but didn't say it was a programming. So the secretaries, who believed they couldn't do programming, weren't scared off. They read the manual, discovered they could do useful things and they learned to program. -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ A bad day in () is better than a good day in {}.