From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs Book Vs Emacs Manuals Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 16:09:53 +0100 Message-ID: <87fv77gl6m.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> References: <87fv77barj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zj5fgpd8.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87a8xft9ra.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1431097819 2112 80.91.229.3 (8 May 2015 15:10:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 15:10:19 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 08 17:10:13 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Yqjum-0003qr-VF for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 May 2015 17:10:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56266 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yqjum-0006qD-5a for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 May 2015 11:10:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35666) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YqjuY-0006pt-Bx for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 May 2015 11:10:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YqjuU-0004wN-Nc for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 May 2015 11:09:58 -0400 Original-Received: from cheviot12.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.234.12]:38355) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YqjuU-0004wH-HH for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 May 2015 11:09:54 -0400 Original-Received: from smtpauth-vm.ncl.ac.uk ([10.8.233.129] helo=smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk) by cheviot12.ncl.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1YqjuT-0002ny-C5 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 May 2015 16:09:53 +0100 Original-Received: from jangai.ncl.ac.uk ([10.66.67.223] helo=localhost) by smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1YqjuT-0004U1-LR for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 May 2015 16:09:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87a8xft9ra.fsf@gnu.org> (Tassilo Horn's message of "Fri, 8 May 2015 16:38:17 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 128.240.234.12 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:104302 Archived-At: Tassilo Horn writes: >>>> >>>> a) Through the different Manuals (there are many and they are big) >>>> >>>> b) Through a Book that puts all of the different pieces together in a >>>> concise mannner. >>> >>> The best way to learn emacs is the tutorial (C-h t). >> >> I wish this were true. Actually, the tutorial is not a good >> introduction to emacs. It's over 200 lines before you get off "how to >> move the cursor around". > > Mine starts with the key binding notation, then come some empty lines, > and then on line 53ff immediately C-v/M-v are explained. The section at > line 93 then starts the section about C-f/C-b/C-n/C-p, then word-wise > motion, then bol/eol motion. Around line 200, the basic motion commands > are done with the exception of M- and the use of an numeric > argument. Yep, that's quite a lot. And then it goes into "What to do when Emacs in Hung". After that, it starts talking about Windows which, of course, are not windows. It's very off-putting. I didn't realise this till, of course, till I watched on of my students fight with it. >> Most people these days assume that you do this with the mouse or a >> finger and that doesn't take 200 lines to explain. Works with Emacs >> too. > > Yes, and the tutorial also states that you can use the arrow keys or the > mouse for scrolling/moving point. Ok, not at prominent positions. But > if the tutorial started with "you can use emacs like notepad" then users > would immediately pick up the habit of using emacs like notepad. If users move the cursor in Emacs the same way at they do in notepad, that's fine by me. >> There are other introductions out there, and one of the needs to be >> integrated into Emacs. > > Out of interest, which ones? This one has some funky pictures of the basic GUI elements. http://www.jesshamrick.com/2012/09/10/absolute-beginners-guide-to-emacs/ This one is quite nice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6jfrrwR10k Xah Lee's stuff is erratic but useful. Basically, anything that doesn't start off with keybindings would be good for me. They can come later. Phil