From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs Book Vs Emacs Manuals Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 12:08:42 +0100 Message-ID: <87fv73l6bp.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> References: <554C9356.5000204@gmail.com> <20150508125314086261755@bob.proulx.com> <87bnhuc177.fsf@mbork.pl> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1431342555 24951 80.91.229.3 (11 May 2015 11:09:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 11:09:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Rusi Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 11 13:09:03 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Yrla2-0002vD-II for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 13:09:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36532 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yrla1-00049b-Cx for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 07:09:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35498) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrlZs-00049V-Mq for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 07:08:53 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrlZl-0007BJ-1E for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 07:08:52 -0400 Original-Received: from cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.234.22]:34470) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrlZk-00077l-Rm for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 07:08:44 -0400 Original-Received: from smtpauth-vm.ncl.ac.uk ([10.8.233.129] helo=smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk) by cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1YrlZi-0002XW-EA; Mon, 11 May 2015 12:08:42 +0100 Original-Received: from jangai.ncl.ac.uk ([10.66.67.223] helo=localhost) by smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1YrlZi-0006TC-8A; Mon, 11 May 2015 12:08:42 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Rusi's message of "Sun, 10 May 2015 07:01:53 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 128.240.234.22 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:104366 Archived-At: Rusi writes: >> Has emacs changed that much? I don't think it has. It is still very >> much the same. > > Sad but true > > After 20 years of using, teaching with, and making my students use > emacs, for the first time this year I taught python using Idle rather > than emacs. Some nuisances... C-a now means Select-all whereas my > nerve-pathways know it as Beginning-of-line etc etc Also some > sadness... however one needs to get real and selling emacs to students > has led to lot of funny looks and some significant hostility. > > The tutorial with C-f C-b... for cursor movements was I guess the last straw I have exactly the same experience, and use idle for the same reason. I have sat behind some students and looked at them staring at the front page of the tutorial in despair. I mean, they are leaning Python already? This is despite the fact that idle is not that great. I give them cart blanche to choose as they will, although I do plug Emacs (while admitting that I am biased). Very few of them use it, and the initial hurdle is getting it to work at all. Phil