From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: help in same window + colorful help + =?utf-8?Q?Bl=C3=BCmchen?= Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 00:17:03 +0200 Message-ID: <87fv4xj7s0.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> References: <87lhera8kl.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> <20150707234519.25862.069DDC4F@ahiker.mooo.com> <20150708070357.GA18527@tuxteam.de> <87fv4z2aov.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> <20150708111326.GA29589@tuxteam.de> <87si8yesv7.fsf@web.de> <20150708125601.GA32537@tuxteam.de> <87bnfmjmf1.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> <20150709062758.GA29164@tuxteam.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1436480349 17456 80.91.229.3 (9 Jul 2015 22:19:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 22:19:09 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 10 00:18:52 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZDK9Z-0001aD-FK for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 00:18:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41990 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZDK9Y-0004sp-O6 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2015 18:18:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55113) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZDK9P-0004sH-5U for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2015 18:18:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZDK9J-0008Ow-Er for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2015 18:18:39 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:43367) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZDK9J-0008Oa-82 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2015 18:18:33 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZDK9H-0001OM-JZ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 00:18:31 +0200 Original-Received: from nl106-137-156.student.uu.se ([130.243.137.156]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 00:18:31 +0200 Original-Received: from embe8573 by nl106-137-156.student.uu.se with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 00:18:31 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Lines: 72 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: nl106-137-156.student.uu.se Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:WBKm8WYPL0wfogswIoG8wP72qB8= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:105567 Archived-At: writes: > Yep, I get that. But as you have seen in this > thread, there are many choices actually (themes, > font-lock-maximum-decoration, the incredible Do Re > Mi -- all of them addressing orthogonal needs > (overall looks, fontification detail, color > saturation). > > Now what would be interesting would be: what's > missing (besides "I want the default to be what > I like", which obviously can't work for everyone. > Yeah, relativist and proud of it. It's the > (absolutely ;-) only thing I'm absolute about. Absolutely :) Here is what I would do: I'd do five distinctly different themes, then make an example screen with each, why not with Gnus and Emacs-w3m like in my example dump, but that isn't important. Then I'd show those five screens to some 500 people, and have them arrange them in the order they like the themes the best. Each stack, the number one theme would get five points, the number two four, etc. And the theme with the most points would be a good candidate how Emacs should look by default! (And if the default X look would win, I'm fine with that, obviously, tho I doubt that would happen...) The reason I think like this is: when I saw Emacs the first time I realized it was programmable, so I realized I could have it look and behave any way I want it to. With this realization it becomes irrelevant that I think it looks, well "not good", by default. This isn't a mechanic that is restricted to colors: many times I don't like the shortcuts (too long and far from typing position), I don't like the blinking cursor (disruptive), etc. etc. But to me, none of that matters, or actually it is a good thing to some degree as I enjoy writing Lisp and changing things. I like problems if I can solve them in a pleasant way! But many people are not like this, and if they see something they don't instinctively like they'll go for something else *in an instant*! And this is what I'm saying, not that my theme is better. Which it is, of course, so now I said that as well :) >> What is "mild" and "angry"? Is it the degree how >> much markup should be in different colors, or is it >> the intensity of the colors, i.e. the color scheme? > > A bit of both. I tend to a "deep" color scheme, but > things which are "near" (pretty subjective) get > colors which are "near" too (subjective too: my > father was totally color-blind and I inherited a bit > of that, it seems). Well, again, it is subjective between you and me, but it isn't subjective with 500 people. For example, green is a color which people have the easiest time with identifying variations; red signals dangers (think of the traffic lights); and all this is probably an evolutionary thing. Everyone are different compared to one another but 500 people will turn up pretty similar - trust me, if not this post. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573