From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:04:05 +0200 Message-ID: <87fv17jc96.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <561A19AB.5060001@cumego.com> <87lhb1n81y.fsf@gnu.org> <83si594wt3.fsf@gnu.org> <87io64iigs.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3kso1gr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87wpuks5ek.fsf@T420.taylan> <83vba4i1z3.fsf@gnu.org> <87pp0cqgjf.fsf@T420.taylan> <83twpoi0sp.fsf@gnu.org> <878u70qf75.fsf@T420.taylan> <83mvvghydi.fsf@gnu.org> <5623E3B5.8050407@dancol.org> <87y4f0kos9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <5623EAB2.5000008@dancol.org> <87pp0cotqd.fsf@T420.taylan> <5623F7E2.3010200@dancol.org> <87d1wbp9uv.fsf@T420.taylan> <22052.51982.9833.353851@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83bnbvgm39.fsf@gnu.org> <87k2qjjdqt.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445256267 18929 80.91.229.3 (19 Oct 2015 12:04:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:04:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: taylanbayirli@gmail.com, "Stephen J. Turnbull" , dancol@dancol.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 19 14:04:26 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zo9Av-0005fW-27 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:04:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38770 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zo9Au-0002Sm-8F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 08:04:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56907) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zo9Aq-0002Sd-3t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 08:04:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zo9Ap-0005CY-38 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 08:04:20 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:38332) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zo9Ac-0005BP-LH; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 08:04:06 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52150 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1Zo9Ab-00079c-O6; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 08:04:06 -0400 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1EE78DF46D; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:04:05 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87k2qjjdqt.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (David Kastrup's message of "Mon, 19 Oct 2015 13:31:54 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:192078 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 19:50:53 +0900 >>> From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" >>> Cc: Daniel Colascione , David Kastrup , >>> emacs-devel@gnu.org >>>=20 >>> Taylan Ulrich Bay=C4=B1rl=C4=B1 /Kammer writes: >>> > I've heard bad things about both defstruct and EIEIO for different >>> > reasons. The fact that most Elisp code is shy of using even defstru= ct >>> > should tell us something. >>>=20 >>> It does. It tells us that RMS doesn't like abstract data types. >> >> Reality check: >> >> fgrep -Rw defstruct lisp --include=3D"*.el" | wc >> 172 815 12631 > > That's 172 lines with occurences of defstruct (which usually occurs once > per line, but since those lines have also a file name and other words, > the second number appears to signify more than there is). > > Here is the output of the above fgrep command until the actual use of a > native defstruct outside of a comment (I think we can savely assume that > RMS would not really use cl-defstruct as he is not known to be a fan of > cl): > [...] There are 37 active occurences of defstruct (I am not counting the code for indenting defstruct in lisp-mode, for example), about half in nnmaildir (older than 2004 when a gnus merge was done by Miles Bader) and half in soap-client (in 2011) by Paul Jarc and Alexandru Harsanyi, respectively. Reality check indeed. cl-defstruct occurs more often in that list. I=C2=A0think it is safe to say that Richard never used defstruct. Not that I'd consider this tantamount to "doesn't like abstract data types". --=20 David Kastrup