From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: What exactly does "installing a package" mean? Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 02:58:43 +0100 Message-ID: <87fv0vah4c.fsf@debian.uxu> References: <87bnbll6b9.fsf@mbork.pl> <87d1w15nax.fsf@attichacker.com> <87611tkxij.fsf@mbork.pl> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445996988 3230 80.91.229.3 (28 Oct 2015 01:49:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 01:49:48 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 28 02:49:39 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrFrt-0002oZ-BM for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 02:49:37 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35165 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrFrs-0000m7-Lf for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 21:49:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57417) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrFrh-0000lr-AX for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 21:49:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrFre-0008JB-2y for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 21:49:25 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:42122) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrFrd-0008Ij-S4 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2015 21:49:22 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrFra-0002Vr-I4 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 02:49:18 +0100 Original-Received: from nl106-137-244.student.uu.se ([130.243.137.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 02:49:18 +0100 Original-Received: from embe8573 by nl106-137-244.student.uu.se with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 02:49:18 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Lines: 58 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: nl106-137-244.student.uu.se Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:bPwkikpQNgNbTYBLVWkRUye7vVQ= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:107855 Archived-At: Joost Kremers writes: > Well, that's a bit of a naive statement. Of course > it's all files and directories, the question is, > *which* files and directories. If Emacs were to keep > a list of installed packages and would save this > list to, say, `~/.emacs.d`, then it would still be > "all files and directories", but as an Emacs user, > you might still run into trouble if you delete > a package from `package-user-dir` but do not update > the file containing the list of installed packages. > > For example, if you remove the files of a package > xyz on a Debian(-based) system, dpkg will still > think xyz installed, because its own database still > says it is. In general, there are many reasons to use a package manager, notably reduced complexity and convenience (those two are perhaps the same thing). In general, there are a couple of reasons *not* to use a package manager, notably (eventually) better understanding and control (those two are perhaps the same thing). Talking specifically, on a Debian system or fork, I'd strongly advice against not using apt-get or aptitude, because that works so well and the strength of Debian is (except for its Unix architecture which it shares with all Linux distros) - the strength of Debian is the immense and well-maintained software repositories, exactly those which you browse and extract software from with aptitude! Talking specifically, on an Emacs system, I mean in Emacs, the package situation is much less complicated than on a Debian system. There is inline documentation instead of separate manpages and info-files. There is a userspace directory instead of the plethora of directories holding binaries on a Unix system. Also, Emacs relies to a much lesser degree on package software than does a Debian system, which would be crippled without the dear repos next door. As, in Emacs, the packages are just a bunch of Elisp files, while using a package manager is as well, if you want to do stuff manually with `provide', `require', `load-path', `batch-byte-compile' - this is fine as well! (You can even do both.) Mixing it up (package manager and manual edits) for the same package/source file(s) tho is the one thing I wouldn't recommend. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573