From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: feature/integrated-elpa 4f6df43 15/23: README added Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 16:14:44 +0100 Message-ID: <87funsfk0r.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <20160916203414.25203.87032@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <83d1j33qgg.fsf@gnu.org> <87wph96cto.fsf@russet.org.uk> <831szh3iq4.fsf@gnu.org> <87mvi5spl9.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83mvi51y3b.fsf@gnu.org> <87instslxu.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83inst1vut.fsf@gnu.org> <87eg3ekjz2.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83vawpx677.fsf@gnu.org> <87h989ixxd.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83mvi1ww6m.fsf@gnu.org> <87wph5fw0w.fsf@russet.org.uk> <838ttlwodt.fsf@gnu.org> <878ttl3342.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <8360opwjs2.fsf@gnu.org> <8760oosrn8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83shrsvj3g.fsf@gnu.org> <86twc8r8gw.fsf@realize.ch> <83r37cvfo6.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476890104 25635 195.159.176.226 (19 Oct 2016 15:15:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 15:15:04 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Stromeko@nexgo.de, Alain Schneble , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 19 17:15:00 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bwsa4-000660-3n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 17:15:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49145 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwsa6-0003G5-9Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 11:15:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34426) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwsZv-0003Eb-6w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 11:14:52 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwsZu-0000Pc-6Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 11:14:51 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:52517) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwsZq-0000M2-9U; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 11:14:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=xdr+zOCjVwas+B2JN6SNSLOdkhxaEkw35RAh55kgYEA=; b=InFkqEmJKiU37Z2h9OC5ue9UZv uKLLNKVjVTLHWfPn+iS1/q+mp9QeoFa4D2GT7x7xdXKkRM1gsDpnb5bpg+qJWFuxNiK7HHqm+f+Ga 0cONpJwOvgdZJZLGNpk6dSde//Sb0Ke6Ei2t0wsPFv14xrm7M8b9b0vmlNOUeaNswRIFqXQYCPCmv 1ITf5h9QcqivJnYWH5rooB6lkGvKXSH5BwaG9mBBj8L2IcxPAZ43Q0PSWvKqFn6unzx9DvJFP6H9Y eaUbe0nju5rNEqyBWkyh2r42YEtFg698WNioDU8p0/LmkUxREHbgS+1iJPFfyFFvYxIojtCOEBRhu drQpEB6g==; Original-Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-60.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.60]:61652 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1bwsZo-003GUp-I5; Wed, 19 Oct 2016 16:14:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83r37cvfo6.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 19 Oct 2016 12:42:01 +0300") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 31.216.48.48 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208480 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Alain Schneble >> CC: Phillip Lord , , >> >> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 11:31:11 +0200 >> >> I think that regenerating *-loaddefs as Eli pointed out will solve the >> effective issue at hand. What's not covered though is that it might >> still be possible to explicitly load/require an old file that is no >> longer there in the new version - e.g. (load "org-html") using the >> example given by Phillip. > > The new version of Org will never do that. So you are talking about > other packages that were not yet updated to follow suit, is that > right? If so, is such explicit loading allowed? If it's allowed, > it's a separate problem of dependencies between packages, and should > exist with any arrangement of directories, I think. org has many add on packages, which do use explicit "require" forms to internal packages (if, for example, they extend an existing org backend). What I would expect is that an explicit (require 'org-html) would fail (i.e. report an error) when upgrading org to a version that does not include org-html. What actually happens is org-html from the old version gets loaded. load-path shadowing is I think, an ineffective mechanism for isolation between versions. Deleting old versions would work but not for core, admin installed, packages and is not-revertable. Removing old versions from load-path is clean and the best solution, which is why package.el uses is. Phil