Citation syntax: now supported in Pandoc

Citation syntax: now supported in Pandoc

[Richard Lawrence]

Hi everyone,

With Org 9.0 out, I thought it might be a good time to revisit the issue
of citation syntax.  Not much has happened with this recently, but I do
have one bit of progress to report:

About six months ago, Albert Krewinkel, who maintains the support for Org
syntax in Pandoc [1], wrote to me about supporting the citation syntax
we discussed previously, and that is partially implemented in
the wip-cite branch.  You can see examples of the syntax at [2].

Albert dove in, and was able to quickly add support for the syntax to
Pandoc's Org reader.  This support has been merged into released
versions of Pandoc.  Albert actually announced this a few months ago on
Reddit [3], but it looks like he did not email this list.

I finally got a chance to check out his work yesterday.  I converted one
citation-heavy chapter of my dissertation to use the new syntax, and
tested out Pandoc's support, with a couple of different CSL stylesheets,
including a note-based style.  It works great.  Thanks, Albert, for your
hard work!

There are some minor issues that probably need more discussion after
real-world use (like whether/when a conjunction should be inserted
automatically before the last reference in a multi-cite citation).  But
as far as I can tell, Albert has correctly implemented everything we
actually discussed and agreed on.

In short, Pandoc now has support for Org citation syntax, and that
support is fully integrated with Pandoc's citation processing
capabilities.  So there is now at least one "real" (non-prototype)
solution for processing Org citations via CSL, with output to HTML,
LaTeX, ODT, .docx, and the other formats that Pandoc supports.

This makes it a lot easier for people to test out the syntax in the real
world, so I encourage you to do so, and report back on what you find!

Best,
Richard

[1] http://pandoc.org/
[2] https://github.com/wyleyr/org-citeproc/blob/master/tests/testdoc.org
[3] https://www.reddit.com/r/orgmode/comments/4tes4x/ann_pandoc_v1172_has_been_released_it_now/

Re: Citation syntax: now supported in Pandoc

[Julian M. Burgos]

This is very interesting! I will give it a try. Thanks for the heads up.


Richard Lawrence writes:

> Hi everyone,
>
> With Org 9.0 out, I thought it might be a good time to revisit the issue
> of citation syntax.  Not much has happened with this recently, but I do
> have one bit of progress to report:
>
> About six months ago, Albert Krewinkel, who maintains the support for Org
> syntax in Pandoc [1], wrote to me about supporting the citation syntax
> we discussed previously, and that is partially implemented in
> the wip-cite branch.  You can see examples of the syntax at [2].
>
> Albert dove in, and was able to quickly add support for the syntax to
> Pandoc's Org reader.  This support has been merged into released
> versions of Pandoc.  Albert actually announced this a few months ago on
> Reddit [3], but it looks like he did not email this list.
>
> I finally got a chance to check out his work yesterday.  I converted one
> citation-heavy chapter of my dissertation to use the new syntax, and
> tested out Pandoc's support, with a couple of different CSL stylesheets,
> including a note-based style.  It works great.  Thanks, Albert, for your
> hard work!
>
> There are some minor issues that probably need more discussion after
> real-world use (like whether/when a conjunction should be inserted
> automatically before the last reference in a multi-cite citation).  But
> as far as I can tell, Albert has correctly implemented everything we
> actually discussed and agreed on.
>
> In short, Pandoc now has support for Org citation syntax, and that
> support is fully integrated with Pandoc's citation processing
> capabilities.  So there is now at least one "real" (non-prototype)
> solution for processing Org citations via CSL, with output to HTML,
> LaTeX, ODT, .docx, and the other formats that Pandoc supports.
>
> This makes it a lot easier for people to test out the syntax in the real
> world, so I encourage you to do so, and report back on what you find!
>
> Best,
> Richard
>
> [1] http://pandoc.org/
> [2] https://github.com/wyleyr/org-citeproc/blob/master/tests/testdoc.org
> [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/orgmode/comments/4tes4x/ann_pandoc_v1172_has_been_released_it_now/


--
Julian Mariano Burgos, PhD
Hafrannsóknastofnun, rannsókna- og ráðgjafarstofnun hafs og vatna/
Marine and Freshwater Research Institute
Skúlagata 4, 121 Reykjavík, Iceland
Sími/Telephone : +354-5752037
Bréfsími/Telefax:  +354-5752001
Netfang/Email: julian.burgos@hafogvatn.is

Re: Citation syntax: now supported in Pandoc

[Matt Price]

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Richard, is wip-cite up to date with recent git versions of org-mode? I'd
like ot try it out but would rather not go back to a pre-9.0 version or
org, having done a certain amount of work to update to the new framework...

Thanks!

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Julian M. Burgos <julian.burgos@hafogvatn.is
> wrote:

> This is very interesting! I will give it a try. Thanks for the heads up.
>
>
> Richard Lawrence writes:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > With Org 9.0 out, I thought it might be a good time to revisit the issue
> > of citation syntax.  Not much has happened with this recently, but I do
> > have one bit of progress to report:
> >
> > About six months ago, Albert Krewinkel, who maintains the support for Org
> > syntax in Pandoc [1], wrote to me about supporting the citation syntax
> > we discussed previously, and that is partially implemented in
> > the wip-cite branch.  You can see examples of the syntax at [2].
> >
> > Albert dove in, and was able to quickly add support for the syntax to
> > Pandoc's Org reader.  This support has been merged into released
> > versions of Pandoc.  Albert actually announced this a few months ago on
> > Reddit [3], but it looks like he did not email this list.
> >
> > I finally got a chance to check out his work yesterday.  I converted one
> > citation-heavy chapter of my dissertation to use the new syntax, and
> > tested out Pandoc's support, with a couple of different CSL stylesheets,
> > including a note-based style.  It works great.  Thanks, Albert, for your
> > hard work!
> >
> > There are some minor issues that probably need more discussion after
> > real-world use (like whether/when a conjunction should be inserted
> > automatically before the last reference in a multi-cite citation).  But
> > as far as I can tell, Albert has correctly implemented everything we
> > actually discussed and agreed on.
> >
> > In short, Pandoc now has support for Org citation syntax, and that
> > support is fully integrated with Pandoc's citation processing
> > capabilities.  So there is now at least one "real" (non-prototype)
> > solution for processing Org citations via CSL, with output to HTML,
> > LaTeX, ODT, .docx, and the other formats that Pandoc supports.
> >
> > This makes it a lot easier for people to test out the syntax in the real
> > world, so I encourage you to do so, and report back on what you find!
> >
> > Best,
> > Richard
> >
> > [1] http://pandoc.org/
> > [2] https://github.com/wyleyr/org-citeproc/blob/master/tests/testdoc.org
> > [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/orgmode/comments/4tes4x/ann_
> pandoc_v1172_has_been_released_it_now/
>
>
> --
> Julian Mariano Burgos, PhD
> Hafrannsóknastofnun, rannsókna- og ráðgjafarstofnun hafs og vatna/
> Marine and Freshwater Research Institute
> Skúlagata 4, 121 Reykjavík, Iceland
> Sími/Telephone : +354-5752037
> Bréfsími/Telefax:  +354-5752001
> Netfang/Email: julian.burgos@hafogvatn.is
>
>

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Re: Citation syntax: now supported in Pandoc

[Richard Lawrence]

Hi Matt,

Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> writes:

> Richard, is wip-cite up to date with recent git versions of org-mode?

Nope.  At least, I have not done any work on this, and I don't know of
anyone else who has either.  I suppose I should rebase it onto master
again, but it's hard to justify the effort unless someone is going to
actively work on it, because otherwise it will quickly get out of date.
(Unfortunately, I can't put much time into this, at least not in the
short term.)

> I'd like ot try it out but would rather not go back to a pre-9.0
> version or org, having done a certain amount of work to update to the
> new framework...

Well, I'd still recommend trying it with Pandoc (instead of trying to
get wip-cite to work).  If there are issues with Pandoc's Org reader
post-9.0, those should be filed as bugs against Pandoc.

Best,
Richard

Re: Citation syntax: now supported in Pandoc

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> writes:

> Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Richard, is wip-cite up to date with recent git versions of org-mode?
>
> Nope.  At least, I have not done any work on this, and I don't know of
> anyone else who has either.  I suppose I should rebase it onto master
> again, but it's hard to justify the effort unless someone is going to
> actively work on it, because otherwise it will quickly get out of date.
> (Unfortunately, I can't put much time into this, at least not in the
> short term.)

I rebased wip-cite onto master. I didn't test the branch but "make test"
reports no problem.

>> I'd like ot try it out but would rather not go back to a pre-9.0
>> version or org, having done a certain amount of work to update to the
>> new framework...
>
> Well, I'd still recommend trying it with Pandoc (instead of trying to
> get wip-cite to work).  If there are issues with Pandoc's Org reader
> post-9.0, those should be filed as bugs against Pandoc.

I'd rather have some testing on the Org side. This is not a Pandoc-devel
mailing list. Besides, we really need to move forward on this branch.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Citation syntax: now supported in Pandoc

[Richard Lawrence]

Hi Nicolas,

Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:

> I rebased wip-cite onto master. I didn't test the branch but "make test"
> reports no problem.

Great, thanks!

I guess this does not include the preliminary work on the org-cite
library (from Aaron Ecay's wip-cite-awe branch), or the work I was doing
on interfacing with a CSL processor via JSON.  Both of those pieces of
work are in the branch in [1].

> I'd rather have some testing on the Org side. This is not a Pandoc-devel
> mailing list. Besides, we really need to move forward on this branch.

Sure, of course.  In order for there to be testing on the Org side,
though, we need the support for citation syntax that the wip-cite branch
provides to get hooked up to the various exporters.  This is what we
made a start on in the org-cite library, before some sticky design and
dependency issues interrupted the momentum.  Will anyone have time to
work on those soon?

Best,
Richard

[1] https://github.com/wyleyr/org-mode/commits/wip-cite-rebase