From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: In support of Jonas Bernoulli's Magit Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 23:08:52 +0100 Message-ID: <87fue7c32j.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <8737aac0rb.fsf@wanadoo.es> <7s37aapc4g.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1499465435 15413 195.159.176.226 (7 Jul 2017 22:10:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 22:10:35 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, rgm@gnu.org, Ken Manheimer , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 08 00:10:25 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dTbS6-00033s-NJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2017 00:10:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59004 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTbS9-0005Pd-1Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 18:10:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59169) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTbRW-0005PK-Ey for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 18:09:43 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTbRV-000227-BV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 18:09:42 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:44969) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTbRP-0001aX-HF; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 18:09:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=kSkjVtydR1zRFLBwpK1vA6oyZYsoO75RvxTWa4u97S0=; b=npxf0BHpoufDq9gUX2KuAAKmN Vk9xkbwSiCW2ukZTgjvQx0uwVDe3UQ46qpmDn0mhL35uE4i+My+Gl+70jOnoOFVryvFZ0tcAQZZof +WTWqkqCgX1GNEg9kqS0yhF3DKInb0iuYbn5FA7nPN/wfBpg44kbPeYzWpUXnlQPgYAQC2pfB20Rd nGC4pAAi9c6w0jANPAeDKd435DZzpXerhrQbAY5ssFol9aQEEUy1ijkPIW30kJEp8ewcj/wFgDmCn gjuTf2Wb0y9GZpecMD0Vb4GvJJHE98Fsc7qPuGKmzeGy1OYwDtJITQegEZVpqRMKfp6JjycDhx06g l5vXESK1Q==; Original-Received: from cpc8-benw10-2-0-cust100.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([92.233.204.101]:50538 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1dTbQi-0048ON-RP; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 22:08:52 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri, 07 Jul 2017 14:23:57 -0400") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 78.129.138.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:216295 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > which might warrant > > improving the copyright assignment mechanisms. > > I don't think the mechanism, as such, is much of an inconvenience any > more. Isn't all the commnication is done digitally now? Only if you live in Italy, Germany, India or the US. At least according to https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/fsf-to-begin-accepting-scanned-signatures-for-copyright-assignments-from-india This post also says the full list is in information for maintainers https://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/maintain.html#Copyright-Papers Although, this only mentions Italy and the US. > It could be improved, but that's like speeding up the fast parts > of a program -- not going to make a big difference. > > The substantial part of the job is finding those people and asking > them to please sign. But it's not terribly hard. It is terribly hard. The process consists of this: 1) Get list of all contributors 2) Email them all, recording the date 3) Email those who respond instructions 4) Email assign@fsf to find out current status 5) Email those who havent again 6) Reply to people who say "haven't heard anything" 7) Repeat some variation of 4,5, and 6 8) Work out how many are left 9) Once n < 3 or 4 check how big their contributions are 10) Write them out Now, for dash, this wasn't too bad (of the 40 contributors I had to get about 10 through the process, and do only one write out). A quick check of my mailbox suggests it took around 100 emails over the course of three months. Not too bad, but still painful. Magit has 4-5x as many contributors, plus dependencies. Assuming linear scaling, we are looking at ~1000 emails. So, we can all bitch about the process; here is a suggestion to improve things using current software that we already use -- debbugs, installed with non-public archives which I presume it can do. 1) Get list of all contributors/contributor emails 2) Email assign with full list to find out who needs doing 3) Email each person with new debugs ticket 4) One of: assign@fsf cc's electronic communication to debbugs assign@fsf acknowledges paper communication *in either direction* to debbugs. assign would probably need to attach an ID number to outgoing assignment forms. This would allow tracking the status of the current situation with respect to each author in need of assignment. It would be more work for assign@fsf, but would reduce their need to respond to "do we have assignment for x yet" emails. It would work imperfectly: debbugs is painful; not everyone would keep debbugs in the CC; and debbugs has a X-Debbugs-CC field, which means the initial request would be CC'd to the person when really you want X-Debbugs-TO. But it might work okay. And it would mean that anyone could take on the task for a given package. If you will get someone to set up debbugs to support this, help with using it, and get assign@gnu to buy into the process, I will test it out with the new assignments need to update dash. If you and GNU are bought into improving the process, we can refine the details overtime. If you think "it's not terribly hard", that's probably because you're a very driven individual who has managed to achieve much that I would have thought is hard to the point of impossibility. I'm not. Phil