From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Marcin Borkowski Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: update intro to Emacs Lisp programming Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 20:07:11 +0200 Message-ID: <87fu2jh8ds.fsf@mbork.pl> References: <80DB6796-41FE-4090-B1DD-BF5AE3F4D0CF@scratch.space> <83zi16ofny.fsf@gnu.org> <6A8BB190-FA64-4697-AFDA-EFBEB4886230@scratch.space> <90addb33-6797-b203-4a67-a2a6c201bd81@cs.ucla.edu> <97CEED22-57CE-4715-9239-1557F38AD994@gmail.com> <376AD40E-4EEC-4DC6-ADDA-4E594EAFE1DE@gmail.com> <87bmddvvj8.fsf@mbork.pl> <87in7juhc6.fsf@mbork.pl> <5C62F3FC-7B77-43E5-A907-4060DA0E0219@gmail.com> <6FC095B3-5F73-4E17-B2EB-BE9F98E2009E@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1527012443 15356 195.159.176.226 (22 May 2018 18:07:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 18:07:23 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: mu4e 1.1.0; emacs 27.0.50 Cc: Emacs developers To: Jean-Christophe Helary Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue May 22 20:07:18 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLBgs-0003sV-8a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 20:07:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57190 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLBiz-0006On-7u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 14:09:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42940) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLBi7-0006OP-5j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 14:08:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLBi3-0000d7-31 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 14:08:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([195.110.48.8]:35544) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLBi2-0000cv-Ri for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 14:08:31 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5630DE6D8A; Tue, 22 May 2018 20:08:29 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.mojserwer.eu Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mojserwer.eu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pblvMKhvGXwK; Tue, 22 May 2018 20:08:26 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (static-dwadziewiec-jedenpiec7.echostar.pl [109.232.29.157]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6185CE6D88; Tue, 22 May 2018 20:08:26 +0200 (CEST) In-reply-to: <6FC095B3-5F73-4E17-B2EB-BE9F98E2009E@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 195.110.48.8 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:225566 Archived-At: On 2018-05-22, at 13:20, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: >> On May 21, 2018, at 13:11, Richard Stallman wrote: >> >> The Emacs Lisp intro should still be self-contained. > > Indeed. But since users are likely to read it inside Emacs, as a PDF or as HTML, linking the document to the Lisp Reference or even, where necessary to the Emacs Manual, would provide the learner with a better experience than the current state of the introduction (as I wrote in a different mail, the information in the Lisp Reference is more informative than the help strings in the function documentation). > >> It should not depend on reference to anything across the internet, >> since the person reading may not have an internet connection at the >> time of coming across the reference. Wen people are reading printed copies, >> the book should not say, "To understand the next section, first read >> something else on your computer". > > But we should assume that a person who learns Emacs Lisp has access to a machine where Emacs is installed. Thus, providing links to the Lisp Reference or the Emacs Manual should not be an issue. FWIW, I read some parts of the Elisp Reference on an ebook reader in public transport. BTW, I once had an idea to write a "next step" book on Emacs Lisp, one that could be read after the Intro. (I even started working on it, and I have about 250kB of text written.) The project is now dormant, but I have a very firm intent to revive it in a few months. It would contain a large number of examples of commands to facilitate various aspects of text editing (and other things), so it would be somehow similar to the Intro in that respect. My current plan is to come back to work on this around August, and I expect that it would take about 6-12 months to complete (depending in various factors). Also, I envision that the book would be similar (possibly slightly larger) to the Intro as far as size is concerned. Would someone here be interested in something like this? -- Marcin Borkowski http://mbork.pl