From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] (icomplete-vertical-mode): Add support for affixations and, annotations Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 21:46:43 +0100 Message-ID: <87fsyafsng.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87zgwlb4xc.fsf@gmail.com> <87eedxrqz4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87r1hviwrw.fsf@gmail.com> <87mtsibwjz.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87pmxeg19e.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2685"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Daniel Mendler , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Juri Linkov To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 25 22:50:53 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lle0q-0000VZ-SY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 25 May 2021 22:50:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53426 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lle0p-00072Z-MW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 25 May 2021 16:50:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53534) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lldx2-0002KZ-HJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 May 2021 16:46:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x335.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::335]:43566) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lldww-0000zw-Oz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 May 2021 16:46:56 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x335.google.com with SMTP id z85-20020a1c7e580000b029017a76f3afbaso11024831wmc.2 for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 13:46:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TGql08ABcPdlAHZ42Ozqcg38I6qzJuRM1IrR6wN+hDs=; b=oLv88nuQh/3iXDCFyzR8FQKUb5ivEFTPTJVl3F+9hlhUGCO11BwAV0lZu7Hx99g9CM +SHNQAEcjLfw8lV6nHBd9/WF7mNZuHd9fpXiko02PDWEHgk2nanpJiWMiNvvGHHBAsIG KSBbdS5Y5/zu4Pg64Piqa8e5qEhmWswluVOmJYa/rh75d/oiFX+3mQb6AfFRtUM59YSL Kva56wQrh0Ji07bZW9pUdRJ8/t/PnLC3xqNIhQpMQrEIfLjCNfyPkUIH3cIXH/jiIlpd WjLrZKep0Szt8hUlt0/lyj/tKMhqnsu55ZJpQrEXr2qOYd79Ptg9ki2t8VC+YgINRULx NzBQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TGql08ABcPdlAHZ42Ozqcg38I6qzJuRM1IrR6wN+hDs=; b=r4zKJcPCWpmlJaIxDyPBNns3WgHEipqNiNhH3QVSn2dIebCk2XcZBjF1bJDwAQlVZH qVJ/7eo8LC2QiT10Xc82+AxOI+RNkyZRlj7qah7ES6bXhY7cDvFcB8ck17OM18/rfRco IEXeHt065vMYHx0f+5WdBw6Wn44NZ+kIvziq67aR2IQ2rQYJTxWzGHfnslbGV6d71br/ ZnoCX36w591K+tl0XVdZwG4+pODwJ9V1vbBEFr3DAk6XfkVTnXHitQHCRXys6F2nBd8c 3Z8OpL9HetI0Via6cciy63egh+s2KeqJDs7kzM0NOHfd12WQt9XifAV2tN3EGoniGwCn hUaA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530bn+4I+ic6fcAjHUbYrxwfO/zLU0svTheQdih38FldNHweFFaS mmldlXZ6UjAh/hsKmSeZ72+TFlp8ARE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwW3RnMxUH6iWAsJarJZPfuD5j7CpBnT4I/ixOdUwOH3ked0gseJ+1urbyE3RTh2QsPF6mF1A== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c1d3:: with SMTP id a19mr24370443wmj.104.1621975606219; Tue, 25 May 2021 13:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from krug (a94-133-55-152.cpe.netcabo.pt. [94.133.55.152]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f1sm19705464wrr.63.2021.05.25.13.46.45 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 25 May 2021 13:46:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 25 May 2021 16:01:14 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::335; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x335.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:269896 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> I see, broken windows. You keep asking for good API's but when things >> are proposed in that direction "that's good" but doesn't matter. > > [ Remember that the whole design of Emacs and ELisp goes against the > usual software engineering practice of using encapsulation and > abstraction to modularize the code so that one part can't mess with > the other. No it doesn't :-) At least I don't design Lisp (Elisp or CL) systems that way (or Ruby or JS, for more examples). Encapsulation or abstraction aren't property of a specific language. Elisp can't strictly enforce many things the way a C++ compiler refuses to compile, but that doesn't mean there aren't a bunch of compile-time and run-time assertions, much less that they are are useless. Among many examples, just because Emacs Lisp uses a shared symbol namespace (sigh...) hasn't stopped us from making the '--' convention or, say, carefully deciding if a variable name should end in "-functions" or "-function". This is nor bikeshedding for me, it's a daily part of design. > Instead, Emacs's idea of empowering users means that for one part to > be able to mess with another is considered a feature rather than > a bug, and the "abstraction boundaries" are enforced by conventions > rather than by technical means. By both. There's always a way to subvert API intent by the programmer. That's fine, but it doesn't mean it should be easy to. Pretty sure one can frobnicate the order of the candidates in a single-arg annotation function, but it's going to be a lot more code. 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